Used bike, no bill, no ownership, no dice? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Used bike, no bill, no ownership, no dice?

S

smc

Well-known member
About a month ago I saw what appeared to be a good deal on Kijiji. I paid some clown $750 for a 1979 Twinstar that's complete and functional, except for some electrical issues and a missing side panel. Anyway clown guy claims the bike is registered to his wife who won't be home till that night, I was there in the morning. Me being an overly trusting dumbie agreed to have the bill of sale and ownership mailed. After trading texts every week after having nothing arrive I've concluded I got taken.

What is my recourse? All I have on the owner(s) is their address, cell number, the texts and the original kijiji ad. I don't even remember their names. I know I can register with the bill of sale and an affidavit. Should I just buy the UVIP and make up a phony bill? I don't see it being stolen, the guy had a house and three kids. The only other option I see is to resell the bike for parts. I've been working on it and it's now probably cost over $1000.

Thanks for any advice.
 
Crappy situation. Problem is, it could be stolen, it could have a huge lien against it, it could be titled salvage...you're completely in the dark right now. The fact the guy had a house and 3 kids doesn't guarantee that it isn't actually his to have sold - perhaps he bought it from someone else, had the same issue as you are now having, and decided to just get rid of the issue.

Did he stop responding to texts, or just responds but never follows through with the paperwork?

Personally, I'd go and buy the UVIP for it based on the VIN on the frame and see what it shows as the current owner. If it matches the guy you bought it from, well, you probably have a case to go the affidavit route based on the seller being uncooperative. If it shows someone else, well, that's a different ball of wax.

Fake bill of sale would be a last resort...if it turns out to be stolen, well, I think it's a can of worms you don't want to be opening by trying to pass bad papers in an effort to put it in your name after the fact.
 
PrivatePilot said:
just responds but never follows through with the paperwork?
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This. Lots of "oh I forgot, it's on the way". Even if it was sent via horse and buggy, it would be here by now. There's also only so many times someone can forget something before it just doesn't exist.

I'll go buy the UVIP tomorrow. Thing is if it really is in his wife's name, I don't know what it is. I'll try and get that, but I doubt I'll get a response.

Also is there an easy way to check if it's stolen?
 
Well, the UVIP will list a city level address of the current registered owner as well as the last name so hopefully you can connect the dots. Some GoogleFu may turn up more details yet based on the info, again, assuming it's not something dating back to the 80's or something like that...who really knows. It lists all sorts of info including ALL the registered owners so if there's been recent activity or changes it'll be listed there, but if the last update was decades ago and it's in someone else's name still, who knows. It'll be interesting to see though so do share.

I'd be taking screenshots of all your texts/emails and keeping them as CYA material as well.

As for checking if it's stolen, well...your last option might be to just take everything you have (VIN Number, UVIP, screenshots of texts, emails etc) and go visit your local police detachment. They can run the VIN and tell you if it was ever reported stolen, and who knows, perhaps help you out. Downside is...if it was indeed stolen, they're going to take the bike.

I suspect, given as how the seller apparently let you know where he lives, is still answering texts etc etc etc it's not likely stolen, but there's likely some problem with the paperwork still - still in a long dead relatives name or something perhaps, or may be like I said, he just bought it himself and can't get it into *his* name so he just wants to get it out of his hair - in the case, so long as it's not reported stolen, you can likely go the affidavit route as mentioned.

Here's a link to it:

http://www.forms.ssb.gov.on.ca/mbs/ssb/forms/ssbforms.nsf/GetFileAttach/013-1155E~1/$File/1155E.pdf
 
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Unless you have confirmed 100% the bike isn't stolen, (yes people with house, which could be rented, a wife and kids still steal crap).. Making up a "fake bill of sale" could be a VERY poor decision. If it is indeed stolen and you make up the fake bill and show up to register it at Service Ontario, they will contact the police. You will then be charged with possession of stolen property. The crown then "uses" the fact that you made up a fake bill of sale, as proof you knew the vehicle was stolen. Now they take the bike and you also get a criminal record.

Keep in mind the seller told you the bike was in his wife's name. Could be they are in a family war, (split up), and she never agreed to his selling of the bike. She can still report the bike, (IF indeed it is in her name), as being stolen. He had NO right to sell the bike. Could be why he isn't sending the ownership is she isn't living there and has NO idea the bike is even gone.

Best route is to get a UVIP and if the address doesn't match contact the local police, explain it all to them as well as the captures of all texts, kijiji ad etc. Let them go after the seller, if indeed it is stolen. You will still be out the money invested as well as the bike, but that is best case scenario as you walk without a record. Of course best case scenario it isn't stolen, and the seller is just being a dick in which case you can likely go the affidavit route. BUT even that may not be possible because you purchased the bike from someone other than the legal owner, (wife). Lying on a affidavit also isn't a good decision.

smc said:
About a month ago I saw what appeared to be a good deal on Kijiji. I paid some clown $750 for a 1979 Twinstar that's complete and functional, except for some electrical issues and a missing side panel. Anyway clown guy claims the bike is registered to his wife who won't be home till that night, I was there in the morning. Me being an overly trusting dumbie agreed to have the bill of sale and ownership mailed. After trading texts every week after having nothing arrive I've concluded I got taken.

What is my recourse? All I have on the owner(s) is their address, cell number, the texts and the original kijiji ad. I don't even remember their names. I know I can register with the bill of sale and an affidavit. Should I just buy the UVIP and make up a phony bill? I don't see it being stolen, the guy had a house and three kids. The only other option I see is to resell the bike for parts. I've been working on it and it's now probably cost over $1000.

Thanks for any advice.
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get the uvip, swear out an afiidavit ($30 last time i needed one) and then get your ownership. not difficult, i've done it.

make up a fake bill of sale? wtf are you thinking!
 
The easiest way is to go to Service Ontario and have them run the VIN. There is a small charge.
If it's stolen, if there's a lien you will know at once.
If it's clear, you can register it following the previous advice.

We have got to find a way of getting this info out to new buyers BEFORE they buy.

I think this is the number one topic on the forum or close to it.
 
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I wouldn't worry so much about a 1979, broken down, Twinstar being stolen or having liens on it.
Bill of sale - not a big deal. However, moral of the story is - always get an ownership whenever you buy a motorized vehicle. Walk away from shady people and those who make no sense. ... And check the VIN on the frame vs on the paper.
At least you got some history which should help you if questioned.

Let us know when you resolve it and how you resolved it.
 
UVIP should be provided by the seller prior to purchase, no?

I'd be worried about a guy selling a bike with no paperwork and no UVIP on-hand...
 
Blackfin said:
UVIP should be provided by the seller prior to purchase, no?

I'd be worried about a guy selling a bike with no paperwork and no UVIP on-hand...
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Yes. But I've bought and sold vehicles without uvip. Not recommended though. You can get burned.

Sent from a Samsung Galaxy far, far away using Tapatalk
 
Blackfin said:
UVIP should be provided by the seller prior to purchase, no?.
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Supposed to, but there's nothing forcing the sellers hand in that situation. It is technically a HTA offence to sell a vehicle without it, but I don't think I've ever heard of a private seller being charged with anything related to it for having done so. Typically if you show up at the MTO without one looking to transfer ownership they just make *you* buy it instead - seen it happen many times while standing in line there, nobody seems to make a big deal out of it, sometimes the person at the wicket mentions that the seller should have provided it, sometimes they just say "you need this, it's xxx$", print it off while they stand there, charge them for it, and move on.
 
Has it been suggested to show up at his door with a completed bill of sale, ready for him to sign?
 
Been there, done that.

Go to http://app.cpic-cipc.ca/English/searchformvin.cfm and run the vin. If it says nothing there's a 99% chance it's legit.

You need the ownership to transfer it in your name, and only the registered owner can get a copy of it. So don't even try. You can go the affidavit route without the ownership though.

When I got a non stolen bike without an ownership the UVIP showed it registered to a defunct dealership. So it was super easy to write out the facts and no issue getting it into my name.

You need the ownership signed by the owner. They haven't even looked at the bill of sale for the last four vehicles I've bought. That's been a van, a blue plate dirt bike, and two green plate dirt bikes.
 
Thanks for the help so far, everyone. My texts and calls today went unanswered. Tried to make it to ServiceOntario this morning, but had another appointment. Will try again Monday afternoon.

PrivatePilot said:
I'd be taking screenshots of all your texts/emails and keeping them as CYA material as well.
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Already transferred all my texts to e-mail and printed them along with the original kijiji ad just in case.

DemonPig said:
However, moral of the story is - always get an ownership whenever you buy a motorized vehicle. Walk away from shady people and those who make no sense
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Yeah I realized what an idiot I was after getting it home. I've learned to walk away on 4-wheel purchases, but being my first bike got carried away.

TwistedKestrel said:
Has it been suggested to show up at his door with a completed bill of sale, ready for him to sign?
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I don't have to build or skill to physically fight anything larger than an adorable kitten.

Robp said:
Go to http://app.cpic-cipc.ca/English/searchformvin.cfm and run the vin. If it says nothing there's a 99% chance it's legit.
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Doesn't show anything, but being a '79 it's a non-standard 14-character VIN.
 
smc said:
I don't have to build or skill to physically fight anything larger than an adorable kitten.
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I'm not suggesting being aggressive, just doing all the work that he can't be bothered to do
 
Go back to dudes house and get your money back +gas, +time, +interest, +headache and stress, +your not going to cave his head in! Why you just didn't do that in the first place? Forget all that other crap......you got robbed! And I would keep the bike.
 
If it's not stolen, you shouldn't run into great difficulty in getting it in your name, just go to MTO and talk to them, or do it over the phone to get your answers, hell I registered a bike that was brought in from the US and not declared, had a bike that had no ownership, owner was a wanted criminal, I swore out an affidavit and had ownership the next day, cops even came to the house looked everything over and all was good they even took off the stop and detain off the bike, never an issue afterwards..
 
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yardi said:
Go back to dudes house and get your money back +gas, +time, +interest, +headache and stress, +your not going to cave his head in! Why you just didn't do that in the first place? Forget all that other crap......you got robbed! And I would keep the bike.
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wow really, he would be lucky to just get the cash back, everything else, good luck...
 
yardi said:
Go back to dudes house and get your money back +gas, +time, +interest, +headache and stress, +your not going to cave his head in! Why you just didn't do that in the first place? Forget all that other crap......you got robbed! And I would keep the bike.
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Good luck with that.
 
yardi said:
Go back to dudes house and get your money back +gas, +time, +interest, +headache and stress, +your not going to cave his head in! Why you just didn't do that in the first place? Forget all that other crap......you got robbed! And I would keep the bike.
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Well that would answer one question conclusively. At that point the bike would be stolen.
 
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