2016 changes to ALLSTATE forcing me to cancel policy after 2 days? | GTAMotorcycle.com

2016 changes to ALLSTATE forcing me to cancel policy after 2 days?

Jeprox13

Well-known member
Hey Folks,

backstory: Problems with TDMM increases, called around and found Don Flores of Allstate from one of the GTAM threads. TDMM wanted $2200...Don brought me down to $1200. Clear winner. Here's the problem...


Two days after cancelling the TD renewal, registering new bike, and confirming insurance with ALLSTATE, I get an email stating
"...new motorcycle insurance rules for 2016...due to your bike(sport class[VFR is sport class?]) ...rules require home&auto to be included....because of this I require you to cancel the policy we just started."

Now you can see my frustration. What can I do about this? The policy is already in effect, season just started...am I really obliged to cancel my policy? Won't early cancellation affect my rating? As cool of a dude and very helpful Don was, am I going to have screw him over on this one? Technically it was the underwriter's who brought the new rules to his attention, or so he says.

Any advice? Thank you!


[RESOLVED]
UPDATE:
Spoke to head office...
So in fact the agent screwed up with the prequalifying questions...and I didn't meet quite a few of them yet he insured me anyway and the underwriters caught it.


For Bike's to be insured on their own, they must meet the following:
Cruiser
M license
30+ yr old rider
1yr minimum continuous insurance

I'm 28 with a VFR...fair enough. But sucks because I had such a great rate with them...
 
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well, before you pull the trigger on anything, are the home and auto rates competitive with what you have today?

This sounds pretty standard, I don't know of anyone with Allstate that has a bike rate without a car/house with them as well. You used to be able to do it with SF, but then the bike rates had a 40% premium. That's likely changed now with Dejardins being the new owner. At least quote them out. For me the bike was the best rate, car(s) and house were just average, but all in the best I could find.
 
Have you already paid the "deposit" on the policy? There must be more to the story than just your bike being a sport bike. I am now with Allstate. I do know they would have provided me with a stand alone on my cruiser..... BUT without home or auto there was a $250 policy "surcharge" So I would actually speak with him and find out if that is what he is talking about If your communicating via email perhaps something is missing in his story. I wouldn't freak out yet. talk to him if he still gives you the same story ask to speak to a supervisor. Worst case call the 1 800 allstate number and talk to someone at head office.

BUT it is best if it comes to that that YOU cancel the policy rather than have ALLSTATE cancel the policy on you. If they cancel it on you then when asked you sill have to say you have been denied insurance and that will get you about a 50% surcharge on any further insurance policies.
 
Have you already paid the "deposit" on the policy? There must be more to the story than just your bike being a sport bike.
BUT it is best if it comes to that that YOU cancel the policy rather than have ALLSTATE cancel the policy on you. If they cancel it on you then when asked you sill have to say you have been denied insurance and that will get you about a 50% surcharge on any further insurance policies.
Deposit was paid and so was their "stand alone" fee.
Yeah email was clear that their new 2016 policies require home&auto to be bundled with the bike...which is odd that I paid the stand alone fee...
And in their words "Because of the type of bike you have (sport class)"
VFR is sport-touring?
Good point about them cancelling on me though. I bet regardless of explanation, it'll be a hit on me.
I'll give head office a call tomorrow.


well, before you pull the trigger on anything, are the home and auto rates competitive with what you have today?
No, Auto was $1k more with Allstate than with current and home is $100 more.
 
UPDATE:
Spoke to head office...
So in fact the agent screwed up with the prequalifying questions...and I didn't meet quite a few of them yet he insured me anyway and the underwriters caught it.


For Bike's to be insured on their own, they must meet the following:
Cruiser
M license
30+ yr old rider
1yr minimum continuous insurance

I'm 28 with a VFR...fair enough. But sucks because I had such a great rate with them...
 
Sounds like the broker screwed up, as you seem to have now discovered.

The worry about cancelling vs having been cancelled is a very valid one. I'd be on the phone with managers up the companys wazoo making sure it's handled properly - this is NOT your fault and you should not be penalized for potentially the next 10 years because of it.

Get a letter from them clarifying the situation (clearly stating not your fault) and stow it away somewhere very, very safe - chances are if it DOES go down as a cancellation you'll be needing it for every change of your insurance for a long time to come.
 
Sounds like an idiot agent, although I'd like to hear their side of the story. The 30 rule may be correct I haven't heard if anyone under 30 with success. For me it was 30 with a vfr, car and a house. Continuous 5 years prior was part of getting a good rate. Assuming u were truthful with the agent sounds like they are incompetent. Not much u can do, but getting a letter may be a good idea. When u hit 30 try grant redfern at allstate, he's been top notch

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The practice of Coercive Tied Selling is illegal.

An agent may ask you to insure more than your motorcycle with his company and even offer a multi-vehicle discount, but he can not refuse to insure your motorcycle alone. That practice is called coercive tied selling and is illegal in just about every province and state in North America. In Ontario this is regulated by FSCO (Financial Services Commission of Ontario).

Per the Insurance Act:

"Underwriting rules must comply with the tied-selling provision under the Insurance Act,

Regulation 7/00 which defines the following as an Unfair or Deceptive Act or Practice: “making
the issuance or variation of a policy of automobile insurance conditional on the insured having or

purchasing another insurance policy.”


If an agent ever puts that in writing (that you must insure more than your motorcycle with him) in a letter or in an email, you will have proof and can have him brought up on illegal business practices with the Ontario Insurance Commission. If he verbally says that to you, it's his word against yours, but you can demand that he sell you only motorcycle insurance alone. That's the law, know it!
 
Re: The practice of Coercive Tied Selling is illegal.

An agent may ask you to insure more than your motorcycle with his company and even offer a multi-vehicle discount, but he can not refuse to insure your motorcycle alone. That practice is called coercive tied selling and is illegal in just about every province and state in North America. In Ontario this is regulated by FSCO (Financial Services Commission of Ontario).

Per the Insurance Act:

"Underwriting rules must comply with the tied-selling provision under the Insurance Act,

Regulation 7/00 which defines the following as an Unfair or Deceptive Act or Practice: “making
the issuance or variation of a policy of automobile insurance conditional on the insured having or

purchasing another insurance policy.”


If an agent ever puts that in writing (that you must insure more than your motorcycle with him) in a letter or in an email, you will have proof and can have him brought up on illegal business practices with the Ontario Insurance Commission. If he verbally says that to you, it's his word against yours, but you can demand that he sell you only motorcycle insurance alone. That's the law, know it!

Not sure what how this would work. But I know that the guidelines state that when it comes to SS we have to take other business with it. And motorcycle insurance is also viewed a recreational vehicle.

Hey Folks,

backstory: Problems with TDMM increases, called around and found Don Flores of Allstate from one of the GTAM threads. TDMM wanted $2200...Don brought me down to $1200. Clear winner. Here's the problem...


Two days after cancelling the TD renewal, registering new bike, and confirming insurance with ALLSTATE, I get an email stating
"...new motorcycle insurance rules for 2016...due to your bike(sport class[VFR is sport class?]) ...rules require home&auto to be included....because of this I require you to cancel the policy we just started."

Now you can see my frustration. What can I do about this? The policy is already in effect, season just started...am I really obliged to cancel my policy? Won't early cancellation affect my rating? As cool of a dude and very helpful Don was, am I going to have screw him over on this one? Technically it was the underwriter's who brought the new rules to his attention, or so he says.

Any advice? Thank you!


[RESOLVED]
UPDATE:
Spoke to head office...
So in fact the agent screwed up with the prequalifying questions...and I didn't meet quite a few of them yet he insured me anyway and the underwriters caught it.


For Bike's to be insured on their own, they must meet the following:
Cruiser
M license
30+ yr old rider
1yr minimum continuous insurance

I'm 28 with a VFR...fair enough. But sucks because I had such a great rate with them...

Hey Jeprox 13. Sorry about your experience. The underwriters are right in this case. There are however some circumstances that would allow you to be written. If you were 29 and bringing over your house and car then the agent could have gotten permission to write the business. Allstate right now, is testing the market with writing 'Sport bikes' as the underwriting rules state that they are not supposed to write them. When it comes to over 30 and clients that have had a few years of insurance experience and clean record we can be pretty competitive.

Also, in regards to the VFR, anything that says "sport" in it is usually treated as a sport bike (don't know why). If you have a bike that is classified as a touring bike then the Underwriting rules that you can write it by itself and just pay the stand alone fee. Otherwise other business has to accompany the bike. I am not an actuary but, I am guessing that this is because they think that SS are higher risks.

Since the Agent made the mistake, I do not think that it would be a hit on you.

Also seen that you rate for the other lines were really off... $1000 more? Thats strange.

Let me know if I can do anything.
 
Last edited:
Re: The practice of Coercive Tied Selling is illegal.

An agent may ask you to insure more than your motorcycle with his company and even offer a multi-vehicle discount, but he can not refuse to insure your motorcycle alone. That practice is called coercive tied selling and is illegal in just about every province and state in North America. In Ontario this is regulated by FSCO (Financial Services Commission of Ontario).

Per the Insurance Act:

"Underwriting rules must comply with the tied-selling provision under the Insurance Act,

Regulation 7/00 which defines the following as an Unfair or Deceptive Act or Practice: “making
the issuance or variation of a policy of automobile insurance conditional on the insured having or

purchasing another insurance policy.”


If an agent ever puts that in writing (that you must insure more than your motorcycle with him) in a letter or in an email, you will have proof and can have him brought up on illegal business practices with the Ontario Insurance Commission. If he verbally says that to you, it's his word against yours, but you can demand that he sell you only motorcycle insurance alone. That's the law, know it!

Apparently this does not apply to motorcycle insurance coercive tied selling is completely legal as long as it is a motorcycle policy. This only applies to automobile insurance. And a motorcycle is not an automobile.

Sent from a device using a program
 
Re: The practice of Coercive Tied Selling is illegal.

Ontario insurance companies can legally change your premium and policy within 60 days.

Financial Services Commission of Ontario said:
Q: My insurance agent/broker quoted a premium that I agreed to and I bought the policy. Now I got a notice that the premium is more than they quoted. Can they do this?


A: An insurance company has sixty days from the effective date of the policy to review the application and confirm the information provided. It may adjust the quoted premium, which is an estimated premium, based on that review or underwriting process. The insurer must notify the insured of the revised premium in writing. source
 
Re: The practice of Coercive Tied Selling is illegal.

Ontario insurance companies can legally change your premium and policy within 60 days.

This is only true if the information that was submitted is different than reality. So if the vehicle is not exactly as stated (model, engine size, modifications, etcetera) or the driving record is not as represented (you have more traffic convictions that you admitted to). The company must have a very good reason to change a quote. No matter how much we all hate to buy insurance (the only thing you ever buy and hope never to use) as a matter of course, they would never intentionally low-ball you, to come back later to charge you more. That kind of bad marketing would only damage their reputation and is not sustainable.
 
Re: The practice of Coercive Tied Selling is illegal.

Re read the post closely at no point, (until it was determined that the OP didn't meet the underwriting criteria), did Allstate or the agent refuse insurance. Nor did they state that they would not insure the bike without other product lines, (tied selling). They did tell him that he would qualify for a lower rate. They did advise him that without other product lines he would be subjected to a $250 "stand alone fee", (which is due to the vague wording of the act permissible).

In this case the OP simply didn't meet the "qualifying criteria" of the company, therefore, the company did the appropriate thing, (when the underwriters caught the error), and advised the OP that the policy would not be honored. The agent made an error, (although it shouldn't happen, agents are human and humans make errors). Surprised their automated systems didn't catch the error. But Allstate as do all companies have underwriters review the policy as a "fail safe" and in this instance the error was caught and the OP was asked to cancel the policy.

OP of course make sure there is NO penalty for early cancellation, and that they return all funds you have paid. I know it sucks as you had a "good price" with them, but it is what it is, for now, (they "may" apply to change their underwriting rules to the FSCO). But also good it was caught early, and that it won't affect you during the riding season you still have a couple of months to find a policy so you don't "have to grab the first thing down the pipe"

Although your previous company was higher, they will rewrite your policy for you. I had canceled a policy about 3 years ago in anticipation of going with another insurer. Things didn't pan out with the new company and I simply called up my old company and they emailed me new pink slips on the spot. I then got my paperwork within about 48 hours. Good luck
An agent may ask you to insure more than your motorcycle with his company and even offer a multi-vehicle discount, but he can not refuse to insure your motorcycle alone. That practice is called coercive tied selling and is illegal in just about every province and state in North America. In Ontario this is regulated by FSCO (Financial Services Commission of Ontario).

Per the Insurance Act:

"Underwriting rules must comply with the tied-selling provision under the Insurance Act,

Regulation 7/00 which defines the following as an Unfair or Deceptive Act or Practice: “making
the issuance or variation of a policy of automobile insurance conditional on the insured having or

purchasing another insurance policy.”


If an agent ever puts that in writing (that you must insure more than your motorcycle with him) in a letter or in an email, you will have proof and can have him brought up on illegal business practices with the Ontario Insurance Commission. If he verbally says that to you, it's his word against yours, but you can demand that he sell you only motorcycle insurance alone. That's the law, know it!
 
Re: The practice of Coercive Tied Selling is illegal.

They would never intentionally low-ball you, to come back later to charge you more. That kind of bad marketing would only damage their reputation and is not sustainable.

It might not have been intentional but i kind of think it was, had this happen my first riding season. Was running quotes to see if i could afford to insure the bike i was planning on buying. Got quoted at $150/month from SF. Called a bunch of other places, then before buying i called SF again to confirm my quote. They said yes $150/month. So i go buy the bike, bring it in to do my signatures, have them take picture of bike etc.. "oh sorry, its actually $303/month, we messed up both of your first quotes" I find it hard to believe that someone with "15 years experience" could **** up the same quote twice but whatevs.

Needless to say i was furious but this was still the best quote i got so i just had to roll with it. Wont ever trust sf again though.


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