Inching towards killing the moto industry in the GTA | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Inching towards killing the moto industry in the GTA

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This all makes me think of parallels between smoking and motorcycling:

- both are voluntary choices
- both are addictive
- both are dangerous
- both are generally seen by the public at large as socially gauche and icky
- both are disliked by the government and insurance industry

They are both subject to "social engineering" and nanny-statery through ever-increasing regulation and insurance costs. I'm sure if the government (especially a Liberal one) could find legal footing to do so it would simply ban both practices outright.
 
Blackfin said:
This all makes me think of parallels between smoking and motorcycling:

- both are voluntary choices
- both are addictive
- both are dangerous
- both are generally seen by the public at large as socially gauche and icky
- both are disliked by the government and insurance industry

They are both subject to "social engineering" and nanny-statery through ever-increasing regulation and insurance costs. I'm sure if the government (especially a Liberal one) could find legal footing to do so it would simply ban both practices outright.
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yup, and we feed the fire
 
So many good, interesting opinions in this thread.

This one by TO Bandit is something I was going to write myself.

TO Bandit said:
It's rather self-regulating, as I see it. It is a luxury here to have a bike. In a place like Peru, where I visited in early 2015, its a necessity. If every rider banded together here in Ontario and made enough noise, then we could make a difference. But we are few and far between. The funny thing is that your average rider seems to be slightly more affluent in general, being able to afford what is effectively a toy over your regular transportation. Usually these groups are more organized and vocal than most. But in our case I feel that our demographic has more of a lone wolf mentality.
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Yes, agreed - In Toronto and surrounding areas, having a bike is a luxury. No question about that.

It is self-regulating - yes, unfortunately, the number of active riders seems to be self-regulated... based on who has the money to spend on this hobby (or sport). Sooner or later, people get bored with the toy and sell it. The ratio of motorcycles to cars on the road seem to be the same, 20 years ago, now, and always.

The problem: even if the average rider seems to be slightly more affluent than the average person, that is not helping to get some organization and some momentum going on...
 
I'd expect in a few decades for bikes to take over the roads, if only for the fact that more of our population is coming from places where bike are the optimal mode of transport and GTA will start to look more like those places. Though it will be more economy riding or cruiser and less supersport/adventure. I'm never surprised to see growing numbers of people overstepping the boundaries of our gray laws surrounding scooters and being advantaged by political correctness.
 
All this talk of "same as 30 years ago" is just plain wrong.

My first bike was SS (of that time). I only had ML license, not even G... No insurance company wanted my business, so I was told to go to facility...
Through facility, I was essentially unlicensed teenager with a supersport - and my insurance was just over $1000 / year.

Try that today...

I'm not saying newbies should get those rates today, but responsible riders with years (decades) of perfect riding, no accidents, no claims absolutely shouldn't be forced to pay today's rates. Ontario Auto Insurance is broken.
 
172Driver said:
Try racing one!
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I did not think I needed to specify the ONE obvious exception. Indeed racing a motorcycle is a sport - a motorsport to be specific. Also, I could throw it back, and ask if that's how you describe your track days. "I had a great time 'motorcycling' around Mosport last Saturday." LOL. I wouldn't think so. You motorcycle around town, and you race around the track. :)
 
adv_round said:
My first bike was SS (of that time). I only had ML license, not even G... No insurance company wanted my business, so I was told to go to facility...
Through facility, I was essentially unlicensed teenager with a supersport - and my insurance was just over $1000 / year.

Try that today...
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$1000, assuming you are talking 30 years ago, once the calculations for inflation are applied...is a little over $3200.00.

In the vicinity off what many are getting quotes for their SS's, you might notice.
 
happycrappy said:
Not to sound like I'm dismissing concerns, but there is nothing in this post that wasn't true 30 years ago. The only tangible change I can see is the perpetual decline of good sense from young riders, in the capacity of what type of bike to start with. A healthy industry is dependent on people being able to enter into it at a sustainable pace, develop a love and experience of the process, and eventually grow into a lifelong customer. In the horribly pathetic "I need it now" mentality that is our social cancer these days, bikes are far more representative of debt, and being overwhelmed with options of crap they don't need, gear that matches said crap, etc. Riders don't need to pitch their little inconveniences to the general public; they don't care and generally and rightfully hate your pathetic ****ing whining. Buy a bike you can actually afford, and go ride. Financing, and tricked out brand new bikes will definitely shorten the list of riders within their first year or two of riding. And buy the way, I don't have a particular hate for sportbikes or anything, but collectively you guys have made it real easy for the public to cheer on anything that will hurt the enjoyment of those rides. Stupid pipes, stupid riding, crashing and dying into the side of a cop car, hours of youtube documentaries on how to be the biggest retard on earth, hate to say it, but as a group it is pretty easy to see why nobody else will EVER give a flying **** about your insurance rates or where you can park. Don't shoot the messenger, that's just how it is
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I find that most average people who aren't even interested in motorcycles find themselves staring at sport bikes. There's a little bit of rebel in everyone. Sport bikes are the catalyst for a whole new injection of people into the sport... especially women. They all want that Ninja 250 to get them into the sport.

What you wrote about sport bikes today could be applied to the cruisers of the 1970's with motorcycle gangs. The new breed of badasses ride supersports and flip the bird to cops. Same as their 70's counterparts. Doesn't every generation have their hooligans? They've just switched bikes.

The supersports have also shown the public how weak police actually are which has spawned things like cop blocking. Doing away with these road pirates is a pleasure to watch.

Society moves on and progresses.
 
eljay said:
I'd expect in a few decades for bikes to take over the roads, if only for the fact that more of our population is coming from places where bike are the optimal mode of transport and GTA will start to look more like those places. Though it will be more economy riding or cruiser and less supersport/adventure. I'm never surprised to see growing numbers of people overstepping the boundaries of our gray laws surrounding scooters and being advantaged by political correctness.
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That will just not happen. People that come here from different countries with motorcycle culture have that culture because over where they came from, they cannot afford cars and motorcycles are a cheap and easy form of transportation, largely all year round.
In GTA, almost anyone with a job can afford a car and unfortunately, due to our winters, motorcycles are not that practical.
Everything here is also much more spread apart then in Europe or Asia. Distances in North America are huge due to our (horrible IMO) urban planning.

Bikes form a tiny percantage of overall number of vehicles on the road. Even if you double the amount, they are still barely visible.
 
DemonPig said:
That will just not happen. People that come here from different countries with motorcycle culture have that culture because over where they came from, they cannot afford cars and motorcycles are a cheap and easy form of transportation, largely all year round.
In GTA, almost anyone with a job can afford a car and unfortunately, due to our winters, motorcycles are not that practical.
Everything here is also much more spread apart then in Europe or Asia. Distances in North America are huge due to our (horrible IMO) urban planning.

Bikes form a tiny percantage of overall number of vehicles on the road. Even if you double the amount, they are still barely visible.
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But if you put incentives, you nudge people towards bikes.

Free parking downtown and my work downtown nudged me towards that method of transportation instead of getting a 2nd car. I'd never commute by car to the downtown core. But door to door, 30-45 minutes on the motorcycle, no parking fees, no bus or train i have to rely on...
Pretty sweet deal.
And besides, insurance on the bike costs me less than my car so that's another +.

So in the GTA, families with one car looking for a 2nd method of transportation...well... having better incentives might nudge people towards moto instead of more cars.
 
LePhillou said:
But if you put incentives, you nudge people towards bikes.

Free parking downtown and my work downtown nudged me towards that method of transportation instead of getting a 2nd car. I'd never commute by car to the downtown core. But door to door, 30-45 minutes on the motorcycle, no parking fees, no bus or train i have to rely on...
Pretty sweet deal.
And besides, insurance on the bike costs me less than my car so that's another +.

So in the GTA, families with one car looking for a 2nd method of transportation...well... having better incentives might nudge people towards moto instead of more cars.
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But your forgetting "most" people are not, (even if there were GREAT incentives), going to buy a bike as a "reliable" second vehicle to commute 45 minute from the burbs when like this morning it is -12, or when it is +25 but pourig rain all day. So they will still have to rely on that bus or train.

The other MAIN obstacle, is that ok your employer gives you free bike parking. But that saving is completely erased when you consider the insurance cost on that bike as opposed to a monthly transit pass, (which for many will be at least equal), but then you need to add in the cost of gear, fuel, maintenance etc ec etc. So for the "average person" the train/bus also makes practical sense, (you can get work done on say the GO train while commuting), you can't while riding that bike in to the office. There are also other considerations, IE the "wife" not wanting you riding with young kids at home, your a LOT less likely to get injured or killed riding the bus/train then on a bike.

A relatively small incentive of free parking is only going to appeal and convince those who were already contemplating a bike.
 
eljay said:
I'd expect in a few decades for bikes to take over the roads, if only for the fact that more of our population is coming from places where bike are the optimal mode of transport and GTA will start to look more like those places.
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If that happens and our streets start to look like this:

27225444-HO-CHI-MINH-CITY-VIET-NAM-MAR-27-Chaotic-crowded-traffic-in-rush-hour-crrowd-of-citizen-transport-by-Stock-Photo.jpg


I will start to hate motorcycles too.
 
You won't nudge people over to our side as long as they can afford a car and have space to park it.
The reality is that most don't care for bikes as cars are way more comfortable, roomy and practical.
When people start families, many get rid of their bikes because they are perceived as a risk.
It is a niche or a hobby, if you prefer. Motorcyclists will never be a dominant force in this country.

BTW, despite earlier claims of ever increasing motorcycle sales, they peaked at 89,000 (including scooters) in 2008 in Canada.
We are way off that peak but there is a small upwards trend recently.

http://www.mmic.ca/content.asp?ContentId=1058
 
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Here in Colombia, there are more motorcycle registrations than car registrations. In almost all parts of the country the temperature during the day is greater than 23C. There are rainy seasons but that does not deter people. They use this mode of transportation because it is affordable. Also, because lane filtering is permitted, one can get to their destination faster than in a car, taxi, or bus. It is borne out of economic necessity that people ride bikes to commute and greater than 90% are under 250cc.

http://youtu.be/RHJ9S5g91eQ.
 
things could be worse, there are noticeably fewer bikes in quebec. why? bike plates are $1000 per year. i imagine one day ontario politicians will take note of that..
 
I feel that people are confusing their feelings with facts in this thread.
 
boyoboy said:
things could be worse, there are noticeably fewer bikes in quebec. why? bike plates are $1000 per year. i imagine one day ontario politicians will take note of that..
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^ registration for standard motorcycles is 571 and change. 1000+ is for "high risk" motorcycles only, as per the saaq, aka supersports!
 
hnic514 said:
^ registration for standard motorcycles is 571 and change. 1000+ is for "high risk" motorcycles only, as per the saaq, aka supersports!
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http://www.saaq.gouv.qc.ca/en/vehicle_registration/registration_cost/moto.php

one of the bigger deterring factors too is during winter season you are not allowed to ride your motorcycle at all as the winter tire regulation is in place (so from i think mid december to a date in spring)

and yes, i agree with previous posts that public transit is something people can fall back on all the time. and some work can get done. when i compare the costs in the mid to longterm though, paying bike + insurance + maintenance + gear is still less expensive than my daily bus + go transit. god forbid the pricing if/when i have a 2nd car to get to the go station. so far, with one kid, we don't need 2 cars (knock on wood)

but the approximate 350 i pay monthly during the winter months on commuting is less than insurance and gas costs (+ convenience i get out of moto)
and if we look at it, let's be honest, if we look at the Canadian household debt, people don't "afford" a 2nd vehicle, they have the capacity to loan it out and that's it!
In the end as you mentioned a lot of factors go against the ownership of a motorcycle and that become the big deterrent to people owning them.
But if you put enough incentives, (low insurance, greener vehicle rebates -> fuel consumption wise, HOV) people are going to want to switch for the cost savings, and for the time savings.

But as it stands, the gov't doesn't have any interest in that obviously and most of us have a ...hmm.. grim outlook on what possibilities could be put in place to enhance our situation, hence, this thread lol
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