The balance of the force will be compromised and a small wormhole will open up in the garage.
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Selling a bike in winter - how to demonstrate running properly?
- Thread starter DECIMIS
- Start date
I bought my last bike privately in the winter and got a good deal because the owner wanted to move on and priced the bike accordingly, 10-15% below market. Bonus: It was a US purchase with better pricing than here and the Canadian dollar was above par (1.10).
If the bike has a particular following winter isn't wannabe season. Serious people actually go out in the snow because they want to grab a rare bike whenever they can. High volume production bikes don't usually fit this category and sell on price.
While you may lose a few bucks on the selling part you might gain a bit if you buy your new bike now (Memo: check insurance rates ). Even if you don't buy now you will know your exact financial situation when you do go to buy. (Memo: Read up on continuous insurance coverage).
Cold starts are not ideal but when I have to for maintenance reasons I let the vehicle at least come up to temperature. It isn't ideal but once or twice won't destroy a bike.
My attitude on test rides really peeves some people but I don't gamble with my assets and don't allow test rides.
1) Risk of collision: In many cases the buyer is moving up and will be unfamiliar with the bike. At the same time he will want to push the limits. This is a high risk ride.
I was selling a Kawi Concours, a top heavy 1000 cc bike and a potential buyer showed up and asked about a test ride. He was on a scooter. My lawn mower had a bigger motor.
2) Valid license: Is the person licensed to ride your bike and in the event of a crash what are the implications of letting an unlicensed person drive your vehicle?
Be aware that a lot of DUI types don't show up in court and are convicted without surrendering the piece of plastic that implies they are licensed.
3) Misguided focus: There are numerous posts about getting a cash deposit of $500 or $1000 to hold in case the test pilot damages the bike. That might cover a few scratches and a broken mirror but if the crash is part of an at fault collision the claim from the other party will affect your insurance far beyond the bit of cash in your hand. It would be cheaper to give a bike away if you knew this was going to happen.
4) Insurance fallacy: Get the buyer to sign something that says their insurance will cover a collision. INVALID.
Insurance companies spend a fortune having lawyers write policy terms and conditions. You can't void those contracts with a note scribbled on the back of a cigarette pack. The owner of the bike is responsible for damages caused by the bike, regardless of who is riding it. The owner of the bike takes any insurance hit.
5) What if I don't like it? Tough luck. I'm not your mommy. Do your research. Sit on it and rock it back and forth, side to side and see if it fits.
6) HTA 172: If the test pilot gets caught 50 over or stunting your bike gets towed and impounded fro a week. You are responsible for the bill of around a grand. If it's winter getting a bike home from storage afterwards is trickier than doing it with a car.
Most used bike sales are under $10K. Consider the above if you value your financial future. In the very small chance that something goes wrong you may never own anything as long as you live. I will demonstrate a bike for someone but would rather give up a few points on price than risk the above.
There are those that want to take the chances re the above and they are perfectly free to ignore the potential risks.
Riceburner
Well-known member
Good points noobie. I personally never buy a bike unless I've test ridden it. Of the many bikes I've considered buying over the decades, a few have looked and sounded good, but a test ride showed their flaws. I've looked at bikes people have bought untested and turned out to be un-ridable.
On the flip side, of the many bikes I've sold, only a few were ever test ridden.
On the flip side, of the many bikes I've sold, only a few were ever test ridden.
Using due diligence a lot of my scenarios can be minimized. I point these out to let people know why they should be diligent.
Another point is that if something goes wrong and you end up with a judgement against you the judgement never expires. A person may think that since they don't have any assets the problem will go away. Then 20 years later they inherit the family farm and someone says "I'll take that."
I see things from both sides - I'd be paranoid to let someone of unknown skill hop on my bike for a test ride...unless they showed up on a bike themselves that showed me they were truly experienced riders, and even then I'd probably limit it to a "ride up and down my street only" type thing.
But, on the flipside, I wouldn't buy a bike I couldn't test ride. Too many risks of finding skeletons in the closet down the road - ie, the seller "forgot" to tell you about that bent shift fork that won't let the gearbox go into 5th gear, or that the starter doesn't work properly when it gets hot...but to list a few examples.
I think in the case of an unproven/newbie rider I'd suggest they can test ride it AFTER they hand over the cash (and only cash), sign the bill of sale, and my insurance and plates are off it - at that point, I'd offer to trailer them to a parking lot somewhere where they can safely ride it as is and offer them a 10 minute buyers-remorse sort of deal - if in that 10 minutes you find something you take issue with we can just tear up the receipt, hand them their cash back, and I go home. I'd also make sure they're clear that if they drop/crash the bike during those 10 minutes that doesn't count as "remorse", and the "you broke it you bought it" situation comes into play. I have my cash, don't technically own the bike anymore on paper, and my insurance would be in no way part of the incident - once they've signed the bill of sale it's technically, in the letter of the law, their bike at that point...and of course, I'd have the cash which is all that matters ultimately.
Then again, that's just me - I wouldn't ever try to sell anything without fully disclosing any issues to begin with, so I've no problem proving it..but yes, I'd probably be very careful to make sure I'm not left holding the bag on a crashed bike because Johnny test-pilot had never actually ridden anything bigger that his dad's Vespa.
But, on the flipside, I wouldn't buy a bike I couldn't test ride. Too many risks of finding skeletons in the closet down the road - ie, the seller "forgot" to tell you about that bent shift fork that won't let the gearbox go into 5th gear, or that the starter doesn't work properly when it gets hot...but to list a few examples.
I think in the case of an unproven/newbie rider I'd suggest they can test ride it AFTER they hand over the cash (and only cash), sign the bill of sale, and my insurance and plates are off it - at that point, I'd offer to trailer them to a parking lot somewhere where they can safely ride it as is and offer them a 10 minute buyers-remorse sort of deal - if in that 10 minutes you find something you take issue with we can just tear up the receipt, hand them their cash back, and I go home. I'd also make sure they're clear that if they drop/crash the bike during those 10 minutes that doesn't count as "remorse", and the "you broke it you bought it" situation comes into play. I have my cash, don't technically own the bike anymore on paper, and my insurance would be in no way part of the incident - once they've signed the bill of sale it's technically, in the letter of the law, their bike at that point...and of course, I'd have the cash which is all that matters ultimately.
Then again, that's just me - I wouldn't ever try to sell anything without fully disclosing any issues to begin with, so I've no problem proving it..but yes, I'd probably be very careful to make sure I'm not left holding the bag on a crashed bike because Johnny test-pilot had never actually ridden anything bigger that his dad's Vespa.
Warm the engine up to normal operating temp before the potential buyer arrives to see it. That way when you go to start it for them to hear the engine, it starts easily and doesn't seem as hard to start as it would be from dead cold. Also should make the engine sound quieter then from a dead cold start
Funny you mention that. I specifically tell people to NOT do that, I want to see and hear it start from cold. I know and expect a small engine might run like crap for a few minutes while cold, but I have a friend that bought a snowmobile that the seller was apparently careful to preheat before he arrived. Turned out the engine was so sloppy that it smoked like hell when it was cold and was a whore to get started to begin with due to lack of compression. Once it heated up though and the piston and rings all expanded, things were better.
Of course, he didn't discover the problems until he had it home and went to start it up cold the next day.
Absolutely. If I go to see a vehicle and I see the engine is above air temperature, I won't buy. Might go back and have a second look if it's not a bother but it has to be started from cold, preferably by someone else, with me standing at the back with the palm of my hand a few inches from the tailpipe to catch anything the engine might spew out.
Well I own a 2013 with only 4000km on it, basically it's a mint engine. And even that would sound like **** if I started it outside in the cold, especially since it hasn't been started in months. So it's just a suggestion to get it nice and running warm before they come, not right before so it's at 80 degrees. Just saying don't try starting a bike that's been freezing for months in storage for its first time in front of a potential customer, it might scare someone away when it shouldn't.
Just cause it's been warmed doesn't make it a lemon. Some knocks actually get louder when warm compared to cold. And I don't think he asked how to hide a mechanical problem anyways. To each their own
Just cause it's been warmed doesn't make it a lemon. Some knocks actually get louder when warm compared to cold. And I don't think he asked how to hide a mechanical problem anyways. To each their own
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Compromise: Hire JohnnyP636 to sell your bike!
Though not a perfect solution, you could demo the ride for the buyer, while they follow in their car (as long as the roads are clear). It at least demonstrates you trust the bike enough to ride it yourself. I've done that with one bike and allowed a test ride for another, though I admit that involved risking my insurance, even if I had the cash. The guy lived close by, didn't act like a goof and was geared up for the test ride, so it wasn't a total leap of faith.
Though not a perfect solution, you could demo the ride for the buyer, while they follow in their car (as long as the roads are clear). It at least demonstrates you trust the bike enough to ride it yourself. I've done that with one bike and allowed a test ride for another, though I admit that involved risking my insurance, even if I had the cash. The guy lived close by, didn't act like a goof and was geared up for the test ride, so it wasn't a total leap of faith.
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Kri$han
Well-known member
Starting it once or twice in the winter for purposes of selling is hardly the same as driving short distances all winter long for several years.
If you start it everyday and run it for 5 minutes, yes, I think you'll probably do some damage related to water in the oil & crankcase. Just put a "cash-in-hand test rides only" disclaimer in your FS ad and sell the damn thing, that way you won't be starting it until a serious buyer comes along. Also, is it in a garage, or outside? My bike's a 2004 and it's in a garage (non heated) I can guarantee if I tried to start it today, it would light up.
Also, I would avoid running the bike through the gears while its on a rear stand - has anyone actually done this?
I also want to mention that everyone else is gonna wait until spring to sell their bikes, so you might have more luck selling now to those new buyers that just can't wait.
If you start it everyday and run it for 5 minutes, yes, I think you'll probably do some damage related to water in the oil & crankcase. Just put a "cash-in-hand test rides only" disclaimer in your FS ad and sell the damn thing, that way you won't be starting it until a serious buyer comes along. Also, is it in a garage, or outside? My bike's a 2004 and it's in a garage (non heated) I can guarantee if I tried to start it today, it would light up.
Also, I would avoid running the bike through the gears while its on a rear stand - has anyone actually done this?
I also want to mention that everyone else is gonna wait until spring to sell their bikes, so you might have more luck selling now to those new buyers that just can't wait.
started my SV last night, the potential buyer wanted to see a video of it running. no issues
For a $200 deposit, take them to a proper bike shop and have it safety inspected. That comes with a test ride from the mechanic (this actually occurs at reputable places) and they have one step completed that they would have to do anyway after purchasing it. If the dude backs out after the ride, your time and inspection are paid for.
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