Do you own ALL of your bike? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Do you own ALL of your bike?

I don't get the pickup power wars myself. Some guys with 3/4ton trucks are making more horsepower (claiming they "need" it to tow their 6000# travel trailer) all while I'm pulling 100,000+ pounds with less horsepower in my class 8 truck. <shrug>

Some of the pickup trucks exceed the GCWR at which you need a commercial drivers license, logbook, etc.

I really don't think I would want to be pulling 30,000 lbs with a pickup truck. It's just begging for the tail to start wagging the dog. Best one I've seen was a large enclosed box trailer (don't know what was inside) flipped over on 401 near Trenton and it flipped a Ford Excursion along with it.

People seem to want to put an enormous trailer behind their truck and then still want it to accelerate like there was nothing behind it and probably travel at speeds that they really shouldn't be doing while towing.

It's just bragging rights.
 
Some of the pickup trucks exceed the GCWR at which you need a commercial drivers license, logbook, etc.

I really don't think I would want to be pulling 30,000 lbs with a pickup truck. It's just begging for the tail to start wagging the dog. Best one I've seen was a large enclosed box trailer (don't know what was inside) flipped over on 401 near Trenton and it flipped a Ford Excursion along with it.

People seem to want to put an enormous trailer behind their truck and then still want it to accelerate like there was nothing behind it and probably travel at speeds that they really shouldn't be doing while towing.

It's just bragging rights.

Yep, and a lot of people find out the hard way that they need a class A licence to drive the truck they're operating, but a lot of the same people blindly wander in thinking that just because it's a pickup truck they are somehow exempt, and worse yet, when it comes to the recreational vehicle market the police pay surprisingly little attention. Go to any RV campground / provincial park on any summer weekend and you won't have to look very far to find a guy with a pickup truck pulling a 10-20K 5th wheel with a (hopefully large enough, often not) pickup truck that puts them well into commercial licence categories, but for some reason they get the blind eye treatment.

My wife and I travelled coast to coast with our 5th wheel when we were hard core RV'ers. I drive a 3500 series dually truck and we had a 35' fifth wheel, and when we traveled in provinces that allowed it (Ontario and most provinces east) we often towed double trailers - the 5th wheel with our Jetski trailer behind that. Legal ONLY for full class A licence holders. Not ONCE in what was easily 150,000K we traveled with our trailer in tow over all our years did I ever get asked to prove my licence class..even though I hold a class A and am licenced for such. Not once in all those years did I ever see anyone else get asked, either.

Now, when I pull my horse trailer, things change - the police (and moreso, the MTO) care about horse trailers for some reason, but the guy with a critically overloaded 2500 series single rear wheel truck pulling a 40' tri axle toy hauler trailer that weighs 25K with his 4 dirt bikes and ATV in the back...hey, move along.

And I agree that it's bragging rights. The fact that Dodge posts a 30,000# tow rating for what is effectively a light duty truck (no matter what they want to stamp on the doors, in the end, it's still a LDT..not a class 6/7 MDT or a class 8 HDT) is utterly ridiculous and done solely so that they can swagger around claiming to have topped the tow ratings again.

And yes, it's all about perceived inadequacies for the people that pull big trailers and "demand" more HP. They feel that if their truck, while pulling the aforementioned massive heavy trailer, dare slow down on a grade (gasp!) that they are clearly underpowered and must compensate. They must be able to roar up any grade the roads can throw at them, including mountain passes, while staying conveniently on cruise control and without loosing 1KPH. Anything else is unacceptable.

Tongue firmly in cheek.

If the same attitudes applied to tractor trailers we'd all have 5000HP engines under the hood and perhaps 10 more gears to go with it...but the realities are quite different.
 
Last edited:
Interesting topic indeed.

Digital Rights Management and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) was originally created to protect artisitc works such as music, film and other electronic media arts from being copied and distributed without benefit to the original artist through the copyright laws. This has lead to software being considered an artistic form protected by copyright. It leads to active protective measures such as DRM enforcement mechanisms within the work itself or at least passive protective measures such as acceptance by the end-user to a license agreement for the use of the work. Actually, I can't remember signing a software license agreement when I purchased my car.;) I think that the argument of fair use might be used to counter this trend of protecting ECU firmware, if it ever came to pass. Fair use as defined in Wikipedia is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright said:
Fair use is a defense to an allegation of copyright infringement under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976. This section describes some of the uses of copyrighted software that courts have held to be fair. In Galoob v. Nintendo, the 9th Circuit held that modification of copyright software for personal use was fair. In Sega v. Accolade, the 9th Circuit held that making copies in the course of reverse engineering is a fair use, when it is the only way to get access to the "ideas and functional elements" in the copyrighted code, and when "there is a legitimate reason for seeking such access".

So,modification of the ECU concepts of fuel and engine management might be considered fair for personal use. Or even reverse engineering the firmware for understanding ideas and functional elements so equivalent works can be derived from the original without impinging on the original license.
 
Rv and travel trailers are exempt from drivers class restrictions in Ontario and most of North American horse trailers etc are not. http://www.ontariocanada.com/registry/view.do?postingId=6402

Ummm..no, they most certainly, absolutely positively, are not. What you've linked to there is the proposal that gave an exception to the towed weight maximum for 5th wheel trailers. It's better described at this page (http://www.pstc.ca/trucking-today/ontario/) under the "5th wheel exemption" section.

It most certainly does NOT exempt people from the glass G 11,000KG limitation however which is still easily surpassed by a pickup truck and 5th wheel combination. There was actually quite a ruckus over this exemption in the RV world as it effectively encouraged people to pull oversized 5th wheel trailers with inadequate sized trucks in an effort to stay below the magic 11,000KG gross weight number - a half ton weighs less than a 3500 series dually, afterall. In the end it did nothing but make an already bad situation worse, IMHO.

That limitation was the very reason why a new class "AR" (A-Restricted) was introduced a few years ago - a higher class licence with at least some training that allows a combined weight over 11,000KG yet restricts operation of what a "full" class A license would allow. Again, details on the page I linked above.
 
Big internet forum win for PP?

1dbc58495eef68075bcd748204b3ed751db6d0f804d2f271e58156be065e226f.jpg
 
I spoke with an MTO guy back in the summer, in a very casual conversation though I was stopped in his professional capacity. I was towing a boat that looked wide (11ft 9").
He said they are told to target vehicles that are "commercial" like hobby farm horse trailers because they see no maintenance. And dual wheeled flat beds for landscapers and the 'hobby' scrap metal guys. He actually said the RV guys and race trailers/ motorsport guys are usually really good about maintenenece and keep stuff up to regs. The landscape guys are among the worst apparently.

I actually think its ok they pick on the offenders , its a nice change.
 
He said they are told to target vehicles that are "commercial" like hobby farm horse trailers because they see no maintenance. And dual wheeled flat beds for landscapers and the 'hobby' scrap metal guys. He actually said the RV guys and race trailers/ motorsport guys are usually really good about maintenenece and keep stuff up to regs. The landscape guys are among the worst apparently.

I actually think its ok they pick on the offenders , its a nice change.

I'd agree, and disagree.

Some horse trailer owners are terrible about maintenance. Others are fastidious about it because they know they have 2, 4, 6 or more lives back there who are relying on them for their safety and well being. With many horses costing a LOT of money it's in the owners best interest to make sure their stuff is safe. On the flipside, there are lots of 2 horse junkers out there that only move once or twice a year and spend the rest of the time in the back-40 rusting, and yes, they can be lacking maintenance. That said, the MTO is increasingly mandating yellow sticker annuals for horse trailers, even when they are not used commercially, so this ensures they remain safe.

Scrap and landscape flatbeds? Many scrappers run under the rules because most of them are not even running as businesses, they are just flying under the radar, and yes, a lot of their stuff is junk. Landscape companies, really depends - if they're running under the radar (retired guy with a lawnmower and some rakes for example) chances are they're not getting annuals done, but any legitimate company operating commercial is subject to annuals so the equipment is inspected at LEAST once a year and the person towing it is supposed to, by law, be inspecting it daily, but often the kids they hire have no idea what they're inspecting and just fill out the paperwork as part of their daily routine.

RV's? Tough call on that as well. I disagree that RV owners universally do a lot of maintenance. I drive for a living and see plenty of RV's sitting on the side of the road with issues, and don't even ask me how many I follow who are towing with only half their lights working. Hell, I followed an old 5th wheel last summer where the guy had his signal lights wired in reverse, so left signal was right, right was left.

How much maintenance they get seems directly proportional to their age - the retired guy with the shiny new travel trailer is likely doing maintenance religiously, but when it gets down to a family situation with a used trailer...half these people couldn't change a tire much less make sure their tires were inflated properly before hitting the road, adjusting their brakes once or twice a summer, or in the case of my example above...even being bothered to ensure that their lights are working. Don't even get me started on the "hunt camp specials" that haven't moved in 30 years who someone hooks up and decides to tow a few hundred K. No brakes, no lights, no safety chains, no breakaway, overloaded, improper hitch...who cares, right?

To give RV's a pass on safety would seem wrong if you saw what I see regularly. Us commercial guys dread May 24 and long weekends all summer as this is when all the "happy campers" hit the road with lashups that make us cringe.

Pssst, not if you respond:eek:

Not when the goal was to get you to admit you're trolling. Checkmate.
 
Last edited:
Not when the goal was to get you to admit you're trolling. Checkmate.

Cunning strategy to reveal the obvious, forum Desert Fox. Clears game and smashes board on table.
 
Not when the goal was to get you to admit you're trolling. Checkmate.

You keep responding, declaring yourself the winner by saying checkmate does not make it so. He is playing you like a puppet master.
 

Back
Top Bottom