Massive 401 crashes and splitting | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Massive 401 crashes and splitting

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drumstyx said:
Neither would have affected a motorcyclist if they had been splitting/filtering, both would have *killed* a rider if they had not been.
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This is a presumptuous, and totally inaccurate statement LOL

MacDoc said:
...I had to brake check one woman two or three times to get her to back off ( she kept creeping up ) until I could get a spot to lose her.
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There is never, EVER a reason to brake check anyone. GTFO of their way, or speed up until you can.

If I'm in tight traffic and someone refuses to back off, I'll move over and let them pass, and get right back behind them (we're on bikes, after all). You also noted in your post that brake checking was ineffective until you could twist your wrist to get out of there. SMH
 
Kri$han said:
This is a presumptuous, and totally inaccurate statement LOL



There is never, EVER a reason to brake check anyone. GTFO of their way, or speed up until you can.

If I'm in tight traffic and someone refuses to back off, I'll move over and let them pass, and get right back behind them (we're on bikes, after all). You also noted in your post that brake checking was ineffective until you could twist your wrist to get out of there. SMH
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I will make an assumption here on @MacDoc 's behalf on the use of his term "brake check". I don't think he's talking about the a hole way when there is no one in front of you and you hit the brakes to scare the $#!+ out of someone, but more along the lines of he is trying to keep a safe distance from the vehicle in front, no opportunity to switch lanes, so he hits the brakes a few times to get some space/ warning to person behind. Similar to the flashing of brakes required on M2 exit test when exiting the highway. I have also used this on the bike while traveling, and always flash my brakes prior to slowing down/ stopping. From what I know of @MacDoc, he's not dumb enough to put himself at danger with an ignorant brake check.
I have, however, been known in the past to be wrong.

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Brake checking and flashing the brake light without actually braking are very different things.


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caboose56 said:
Brake checking and flashing the brake light without actually braking are very different things.


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I agree, and am giving MacDoc the benefit of the doubt that his wording may have been jumbled.
Brake checking in a cage is ignorant. Brake checking on a bike is ignorant, & dangerous.

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Kri$han said:
There is never, EVER a reason to brake check anyone. GTFO of their way, or speed up until you can.
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How about no traffic, single lane road and some ****** decides to ride your tail?

Happened this am, I was in an SUV.

I slowed down more, dummy wouldn't pass (known cop speed trap road), and he tosses his hand up in the air and proceeded to swerve like an idiot. I can only imagine he was trying to intimidate me into speeding up. Brakes, brakes, more brakes...Wasn't a brake check but boy I was tempted to put the binders on hard during one of his antics. Damned ape on a 125, looked ridiculous and "tucking" to boot. We were doing 60-80kms/hr.

No damned way I'm going to pull over or alter my path. If you are so fast on your weebr then get the hell around me.

Dude was begging for a brake check. Bicycle tires, cold morn and probably a new rider was my consideration NOT to J on brakes harder.
 
Damn 125ers.
Personally, I'm trying to get my own road rage issues under control. Someone here posted a while ago that those people dgaf about us, and really, I'm only hurting myself getting ******. So let them swerve. If they don't take the opportunity to pass when given, eff em. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Did I mention today seems like a good day for a manipedi? ☺

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How would lane splitting have saved a motorcyclists life? What if they were between vehicles when this all happened? Not sure of all the details but it does not look like the crashed cars and trucks stuck to their lane. If your saying the bikers would have long passed, then you could just say speeding would have been better because you could have passed the accident before it happened.
 
hedo2002 said:
Two problems with your logic Drumstyx. First BOTH of these collisions happened during hours of darkness, First one was approx 5 am, (sun doesn't rise this time of the year until almost 7), second one happened at 10:30 pm. In the latest one it wasn't "stop and go" traffic. The reports say "traffic had slowed to approx 60 km/h" when the trailing tractor trailer failed to slow.

So given the ACTUAL circumstances and not the ones you have presented would have made lane splitting VERY dangerous. CBCCanada posted you have to be nuts to split in the section, and you replied how people were actually making room for you to split... But it appears that was in town and not on the highway. I too travel this section from Thornhill to Oshawa on a regular basis. People in the "stop and go areas" DO change lanes all the time mostly without signalling as they know if they signal the person behind will speed up to "block" them from moving over.

Now your saying that splitting would have saved a rider as they wouldn't have been in that spot when the collision occured. That is a ridiculous statement. How can you say that, while splitting along, that wouldn't have seen that very rider just split pass that tractor trailer unit which failed to slow and therefore put the rider DIRECTLY in fornt of that rig, where they would have been the first fatality.

I get it, your 100% in favor of splitting and if you choose to do it bully for you, until the day comes that some cager takes offense and takes you out, or you end up here bitching about the s172 consequences. But please don't come here and fill new riders with the twisted logic that it is the safest thing for them to do and would save their lives. Anymore than having loudpipes while doing it will. Drivers in the GTA are just not of the calibre that lane splitting can be done safely without increasing the riders chances of crashing.

Why do I think lane splitting is unadvised? Because while riding my bike 18 months ago I was rear ended by a fool who thought he was Rossi in stop and go traffic on the 401. So you can use the "logic" that you have lane split without incident as evidence that it is safe, while I can use the fact that I was hit, (in my lane) by a lane splitter, as evidence that it is NOT safe.
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Your lane splitter was, as you imply, racing through traffic. That's entirely not the same as a 10-15km/h speed difference. The arguments against lane splitting are as bad as anti-vaxxers completely ignoring studies that prove them entirely wrong.

The argument about cars being ****** come down to cops being too lazy to enforce the rules that actually affect people; non-signalling is a big issue for bicycles too, and they seem to be the government's darling child.
 
Joe Bass said:
...Similar to the flashing of brakes required on M2 exit test when exiting the highway...
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This is the first I've heard of this. Why would you flash your brakes to exit the highway?
 
drumstyx said:
Really? Why? I've found people not only accepting for the most part, but they even move a lot of the time. Even today, Whitby (where I live) the traffic was unreal -- as in as bad as downtown Toronto gridlock -- because of the 401 overflow going through the entire city. They see me filtering and move over no problem.

When traffic is crawling, it really is plenty safe.
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Just so you know, I have done it and got caught by an undercover, you will get caught eventually if you do it regularly and it isn't a cheap ticket.
 
ZX600 said:
Just so you know, I have done it and got caught by an undercover, you will get caught eventually if you do it regularly and it isn't a cheap ticket.
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How's the insurance hike? I don't care too much about the ticket unless it's in the thousands (maybe it is?).
 
unL33T said:
How's the insurance hike? I don't care too much about the ticket unless it's in the thousands (maybe it is?).
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Well the insurance implications would be dependent upon which charge the officer decided to go with Not drive in marked lane or driving more than one vehicle in a lane type of tickets would be minor convictions for insurance. Careless or s172 would be major convictions and likely result in going into facility market
 
unL33T said:
How's the insurance hike? I don't care too much about the ticket unless it's in the thousands (maybe it is?).
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It depends what he got hit with.

If it's unsafe passing or one of the minors, it's a minor ticket and you might not get a hike if you've had no tickets.

If he got hit with a 172 and was convicted...well, might as well stop driving legally cause the no insurance ticket is cheaper than insurance probably (sarcasm!)

The issue with lane splitting is that there isn't a specific law you can be charged under so if the cop wants to slap a 172, they will and it has been done before (two instances here on GTAM).
 
unL33T said:
How's the insurance hike? I don't care too much about the ticket unless it's in the thousands (maybe it is?).
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Well it all depends on the cop - I end up just getting a warning since I stopped when I could have very easily just got away (residential zone). Another time I had a the cop tell me he was going to slap me with stunt (i literally was slowly walking my bike passed him to turn right), he end up letting me go because supposedly he got an emergency call (********).

So my point is, take your risk but be aware that depending on the cop you get, you could be in for a world of hurt.

Also, when I used to lane split I only did it 10 km/hr faster than the traffic and had many people trying to take me out on purpose, people here don't get it so it isn't worth it.
 
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ZX600 said:
Well it all depends on the cop - I end up just getting a warning since I stopped when I could have very easily just got away (residential zone). Another time I had a the cop tell me he was going to slap me with stunt (i literally was slowly walking my bike passed him to turn right), he end up letting me go because supposedly he got an emergency call (********).

So my point is, take your risk but be aware that depending on the cop you get, you could be in for a world of hurt.

Also, when I used to lane split I only did it 10 km/hr faster than the traffic and had many people trying to take me out on purpose, people here don't get it so it isn't worth it.
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I've had very few people try to block me intentionally. The diversity of Toronto means that easily 50% of drivers are completely used to lane splitting, and MANY don't even know that it's not standard practice.

That cop was a dick though, and fighting that ticket would have been easy, since it's standard practice for even cars to squeeze for a right turn if there's room.
 
drumstyx said:
I've had very few people try to block me intentionally. The diversity of Toronto means that easily 50% of drivers are completely used to lane splitting, and MANY don't even know that it's not standard practice.

That cop was a dick though, and fighting that ticket would have been easy, since it's standard practice for even cars to squeeze for a right turn if there's room.
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I can tell you for my own experience, that your first statement is not correct, and in regards to the cop, yea I could have won the case in court but..... after my bike was impounded for 7 days and I had my license suspended and had to pay for all the fees, so no win situation regardless for me, like I said, not worth it.

I am not telling you what to do, I am telling you my experience
 
drumstyx said:
I've had very few people try to block me intentionally. The diversity of Toronto means that easily 50% of drivers are completely used to lane splitting, and MANY don't even know that it's not standard practice.

That cop was a dick though, and fighting that ticket would have been easy, since it's standard practice for even cars to squeeze for a right turn if there's room.
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The diversity of vehicles on Toronto's roads mean that easily 99.99% of drivers are completely against lane splitting.
Motorcycles are a recreational vehicle here, not a typical means of transportation.
We have winters. Besides most of that diversity elsewhere is small scooters, not motorcycles.

The cop saw someone doing something wrong and potentially dangerous on the road, stopped him, and tried to dissuade him from doing it again.
Should he just stick to radar duty and allow everyone to do whatever they want, like they do in some of those diverse areas in which you speak?

I'm not sure that everyone who comes here, and goes through all of the stress of getting here and setting up, because Toronto is different,
wants to immediately start changing things to be like back where they moved from. That just doesn't make sense.

Oh, and you're pulling numbers out of your a, uh, hat.
 
drumstyx said:
I've had very few people try to block me intentionally. The diversity of Toronto means that easily 50% of drivers are completely used to lane splitting, and MANY don't even know that it's not standard practice.

That cop was a dick though, and fighting that ticket would have been easy, since it's standard practice for even cars to squeeze for a right turn if there's room.
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Really? Easy fight? Standard practice? Ask a guy called Bunda about that. http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/2009/2009oncj620/2009oncj620.html
 
Baggsy said:
The diversity of vehicles on Toronto's roads mean that easily 99.99% of drivers are completely against lane splitting.
Motorcycles are a recreational vehicle here, not a typical means of transportation. We have winters. Besides most of that diversity elsewhere is small scooters, not motorcycles.
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You could say that about bicycles too but that doesn't stop city planners across the world, including those in Canada, from reserving bike lanes on city streets and implementing single-file laws for the benefit of that "recreational" and seasonal mode of transportation.

IOW, there's precedent for "special" legal treatment of other means of transportation that are seasonal and/or recreational.
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