Any Electricians out there?? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Any Electricians out there??

mimico_polak

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So started looking for a house with my wife and we put in a conditional offer on home inspection and financing on a place in Mississauga. It's an older (70s) townhouse in a community near Kirwin Ave in the Dundas / Hurontario area.

Anyway, the place went through the inspection and outside of a few issues (mould underneath roof panels - covered by maintenance fees), and some possible asbestos (not confirmed) in a few tiles in the basement, we noticed that the wiring is aluminum. A lot of the switches are noted as being reversed polarity in the contacts, and the person had a 220V outlet that was converted to a 120V with a 30A breaker...

Anyway, any issues with aluminum wiring? I've read that some insurers won't insure it but some will with a premium. I'll call my insurer tomorrow as they'll have the best answer but curious to see if anyone's gone through similar, what you had to do, or if there were any issues from experience.

Thanks!
 
Are you sure it isn't reversed polarity with receptacles not switches? If so it's a downer because an amateur has been at the wiring. It's no biggie to fix but it makes one wonder what else has been tampered with.

Light gauge aluminum isn't a good thing but they still insure houses with knob and tube if you put in GFI's.
 
Are you sure it isn't reversed polarity with receptacles not switches? If so it's a downer because an amateur has been at the wiring. It's no biggie to fix but it makes one wonder what else has been tampered with.

Light gauge aluminum isn't a good thing but they still insure houses with knob and tube if you put in GFI's.

Yes it's the receptacles. Although some switches also turn on upside down...but the old lady was adamant 'it was done by a very smart electrician...I'll give you his number if you need any work' ...
 
nothing wrong with Aluminum wire itself, We still use it in todays residential homes for main services. Even your local utility uses aluminum wire extensively.

where the problem is, at the terminal points of the receptacles and switches. The aluminum over time can/will break down from overheat/loose connection. Over time, the aluminum expanding and contracting at the terminal points takes its toll. Esp if it is carrying a heavier load.

The best and approved solution in this scenario, is to either replace the existing devices with PROPER 'aluminum rated' plugs and switches. These are very expensive but approved.

Another option, is to 'pigtail' copper tails on to all the existing alum wire in each plug and switch and then terminate the copper wires onto a new modern pl/sw. You must used Aluminum rated marrettes that are suitable for mixing copper and alum connections. These marrettes are quite expensive as well.

And don't forget to get a ESA permit for all this work!

Hope this helps!
 
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Not very smart fusing a 110V 15amp rated outlet at 30amps.

He was Polish so she didn't question it.

Thanks for the quick responses guys really appreciate it.

Now to deal (or not) with the mould issue under the roof shingles....maintenance fees cover roof but who knows if they'll cover this. Think I'll walk from the place I'd they don't.
 
nothing wrong with Aluminum wire itself, We still use it in todays residential homes for main services. Even your local utility uses aluminum wire extensively.

where the problem is, at the terminal points of the receptacles and switches. The aluminum over time can/will break down from overheat/loose connection. Over time, the aluminum expanding and contracting at the terminal points takes its toll. Esp if it is carrying a heavier load.

The best and approved solution in this scenario, is to either replace the existing devices with PROPER 'aluminum rated' plugs and switches. These are very expensive but approved.

Another option, is to 'pigtail' copper tails on to all the existing alum wire in each plug and switch and then terminate the copper wires onto a new modern pl/sw. You must used Aluminum rated marrettes that are suitable for mixing copper and alum connections. These marrettes are quite expensive as well.

And don't forget to get a ESA permit for all this work!

Hope this helps!

Well put. The bottom line is that most insurance companies will insure with an ESA inspection. But it is prudent to rewire with copper when possible. Don't forget to apply the anti-corrosion paste if joining copper to aluminum wire with a wire nut.
 
Well put. The bottom line is that most insurance companies will insure with an ESA inspection. But it is prudent to rewire with copper when possible. Don't forget to apply the anti-corrosion paste if joining copper to aluminum wire with a wire nut.

What is the cost of an ESA condition inspection and what do they cover?
 
What is the cost of an ESA condition inspection and what do they cover?

Made a couple of calls this evening and the average cost of the inspection is $1000-1200 for them to come in, inspect the connections and wiring and state what is needed. Then to come back and re-inspect ($750-800 for initial inspection and $250-300 for secondary inspection).

That does not include the new switches / outlets to connect to the aluminum wiring properly.

There's also other inspection agencies besides ESA but my understanding is that ESA did such a good job of marketing themselves that they are regarding as the only company that does inspections. However there are others.
 
We have a large subdivision near us that's all aluminum wiring, they don't seem to see anymore firetrucks running around than the rest of town.

Based on what you'll be paying for the townhouse getting it all squared away for a couple more thousand seems a good idea.
 
The aluminum we use now isnt pure aluminum but has a mix of metal in the middle. This goes for the main feed to the panel and the wires you see in the street. You can make new connections to the terminals n apply no locks
 
Of course…one problem solved and another comes up! Turns out that the electrical isn’t an issue per se according to insurance or electrician as it’s about 2k to set right. No huge deal. Unfortunately now we find out that the mould in the attic (underside of roof panels) is NOT covered by the condo corp, so would need to take care of it myself. I didn’t see it up close but the home inspector’s words were “Oh that’s not good at all….very bad”…

I’m sure there’s always mould in most homes so maybe I’m overthinking/blowing out of proportion but this is definitely making me reconsider this purchase…plus insurance goes up 15% when you live in that area instead of Mimico…ugh…
 
If you really want that place, couldn't you write in the offer that you want the mould and electrical problems taken care of?

Anyway, that won't help the insurance rates... I live near Square One, and I know first hand how bad the car insurance rates are for this area.
 
If you really want that place, couldn't you write in the offer that you want the mould and electrical problems taken care of?

Anyway, that won't help the insurance rates... I live near Square One, and I know first hand how bad the car insurance rates are for this area.

Definitely could write into the contract that we want the issues fixed. However the condo corp has already stated that the mould is NOT in a living area so the attic can be sealed and they will not clean it. I’m not sure whether remediation (i.e.: cleaning of the plywood with the mould) is an effective treatment, or does it need to be replaced. Plus, cleaning doesn’t actually address the issue of what caused it in the first place.
 
Definitely could write into the contract that we want the issues fixed. However the condo corp has already stated that the mould is NOT in a living area so the attic can be sealed and they will not clean it. I’m not sure whether remediation (i.e.: cleaning of the plywood with the mould) is an effective treatment, or does it need to be replaced. Plus, cleaning doesn’t actually address the issue of what caused it in the first place.

Mold: Usually poor ventilation, improper ventilation (Exhaust fans) or previous leaky roof. Those have to be fixed as well.
 
buyers market/ sellers market will dictate whether you get any traction on having issues remedied. If they can just wait for the next buyer to come who will own the issues themselves, you are SOL
 
We have a large subdivision near us that's all aluminum wiring, they don't seem to see anymore firetrucks running around than the rest of town.

Based on what you'll be paying for the townhouse getting it all squared away for a couple more thousand seems a good idea.

It much more likely that things would stop working due to burnt/poor connections.

As an electrician I wouldn't buy a home with aluminum wiring unless I intended to rewire the entire house.
 

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