Peak deaths, in US, was 5300 in 2008, but since then, the deaths have declined to under 4600, and this is a country where many states don't have helmet laws.
Do a find & replace and any anti-helmet thread can become an anti-ABS thread.
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Thoughts on ABS?
- Thread starter Owlman
- Start date
Peak deaths, in US, was 5300 in 2008, but since then, the deaths have declined to under 4600, and this is a country where many states don't have helmet laws.
Do a find & replace and any anti-helmet thread can become an anti-ABS thread.
Got to a no helmet law state and you hear stories about how helmets block your vision and restrict your hearing, making them unsafe and causing accidents, and everyone has a story about their cousin's friend running into a thresher because they couldn't see it because Obama made him wear a helmet and get health insurance, which makes you take more chances (seriously, I was told this). Helmets distract us about the TRUTH about chem trails. Meanwhile the country is now so heavily armed there is a national shortage of bullets for law enforcement, even in Canada.
It's a moron apocalypse, but unlike zombies, they have no interest in brains.
This forum is a little light on blacksmiths, that^ kind of opinion isn't going to cut it around here. Also, think about the children.
Shaman
Well-known member
*sigh*
The ABS on modern superbikes will allow you to brake almost as hard on track as you can without - but with a lot more predictability. On street, they almost certainly will outbrake your hamfisted attempts in a panic situation. Bosch 9Mx systems have at least three levels of intervention, with the lowest one being sport/performance compatible (and possibly racing).
If you do not have a Bosch 9Mx brake system, you probably do not have modern ABS. Most, if not all, the top-end bikes are using it; the "cornering ABS" version is only different in software from what I can tell (requires a bike with lean angle sensors, et al). Judging ABS performance from your ride on a Ninja 300 or CBR 500 is judging an outdated, low-cost system which may help you but is likely to curb racing intentions, which some of the "peanut gallery" insist on throwing into the conversation.
And just while we're talking about ABS, some brands (bmw, ducati are two) use really aggressive HH pads in their ABS because it makes sense... why not have uber-powerful brakes when you have a safety net for them. Having changed the pads in my RSV4 this year, I concur, might as well have really aggressive brakes at the expense of feel, when after all, you're going to depend on ABS to keep you from locking the front tire.
The ABS on modern superbikes will allow you to brake almost as hard on track as you can without - but with a lot more predictability. On street, they almost certainly will outbrake your hamfisted attempts in a panic situation. Bosch 9Mx systems have at least three levels of intervention, with the lowest one being sport/performance compatible (and possibly racing).
If you do not have a Bosch 9Mx brake system, you probably do not have modern ABS. Most, if not all, the top-end bikes are using it; the "cornering ABS" version is only different in software from what I can tell (requires a bike with lean angle sensors, et al). Judging ABS performance from your ride on a Ninja 300 or CBR 500 is judging an outdated, low-cost system which may help you but is likely to curb racing intentions, which some of the "peanut gallery" insist on throwing into the conversation.
And just while we're talking about ABS, some brands (bmw, ducati are two) use really aggressive HH pads in their ABS because it makes sense... why not have uber-powerful brakes when you have a safety net for them. Having changed the pads in my RSV4 this year, I concur, might as well have really aggressive brakes at the expense of feel, when after all, you're going to depend on ABS to keep you from locking the front tire.
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Yup, might as well be trying to judge the system on a Kawi ZX650R ABS by comparing it to the aircraft ABS based system I had on my '92 BMW K75RT.
Significantly less bother.
bobjohnson
Well-known member
I dont like ABS. I dont like it on cars and I really dont like it on bikes. Not because its not "pure", or I think non-ABS brakes better or anything like that. I just ****ing hate that vibrating feeling in the pedal, and i hate it even more in my hand. I can count the number of times I have locked my brakes to the point ABS would/does come on with one hand, and thats with over 15 years of driving every single day, and riding for over 20.
If you like ABS, or you constantly find yourself locking up your wheels on your car or bike, go for it. Its not a bad technology and it clearly has some benefits. But personally I would buy a bike without ABS over a bike with ABS any day.
If you like ABS, or you constantly find yourself locking up your wheels on your car or bike, go for it. Its not a bad technology and it clearly has some benefits. But personally I would buy a bike without ABS over a bike with ABS any day.
Apologies all for this. When I first started it I used the "check similar threads" button but nothing really came up. I thought it was strange as I thought it would be a common enough thread, but then again, it could be that I'm the only fool around to ask such questions. I'll do better research next time.
Having said this, thank you all again for your meaningful input. It's given me a lot to think about. I am in actually a bit of a gear head when it comes to cars, where I've worked on and track-ed my cars. I've never really had ABS on those and even when driving cars WITH it, hardly had to invoke - if at all - the system, even during emergency manoeuvre situations.
But I know bikes are a whole different beast and being the n00b that I am I'm inclined to go with ABS though I'll be damned if I let it waiver me from learning proper techniques.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and I look forward to many more interesting discussions. Speaking of which new thread coming soon ...
The modern premium ABS systems don't do that. Don't judge modern good ABS systems (Kawi ZX10R/H2, Aprilia RSV4, Yamaha R1, etc) by your observations made on a Chevrolet Cavalier. By the way, although BMW has used ABS on bikes for years, it is only the very latest models - and not all of them - that are current technology.
Pretty much same here. BUT. Just like the airbags in your car ... they only need to serve their purpose ONCE to be worthwhile ...
bobjohnson
Well-known member
Yeah, fair fair, but im not buying any of those bikes you listed. The ABS on the CBR250 is not good, it doesnt feel good to me. The non-abs version feels better near the edge of braking power, to me. Same goes for the rest of the small CC bikes I have tried with and without ABS.
If I had 30k to drop on a bike or 60k to drop on a car, id probably just go for the abs anyway, but im buying bikes that are worth 7k or less. The most recent car I had with ABS was a 2007 honda fit (in 2007), the abs was garbage, it would kick in if it was foggy out... The most recent bike I rode with ABS was either 2014 or 2015 cbr250, which again, didnt feel good to me. Maybe the CBR1000 has nice ABS but im not interested in those.
I agree with you on the "you only need them once" bit, but, I also drove an 88 civic for 7 years, where the only safety feature was power brakes. Safety features are nice but if the stuff you can afford doesnt come with them, or comes with bad implementations of them, not much you can do.
Im not down on safety equipment. Like I said, if you like it, get it, its not bad and its probably better, and the more expensive stuff is probably really good these days. But personally I am not a fan on anything I have ridden or driven, probably because im driving and riding at the "broke ***" end of the scale.
If I had 30k to drop on a bike or 60k to drop on a car, id probably just go for the abs anyway, but im buying bikes that are worth 7k or less. The most recent car I had with ABS was a 2007 honda fit (in 2007), the abs was garbage, it would kick in if it was foggy out... The most recent bike I rode with ABS was either 2014 or 2015 cbr250, which again, didnt feel good to me. Maybe the CBR1000 has nice ABS but im not interested in those.
I agree with you on the "you only need them once" bit, but, I also drove an 88 civic for 7 years, where the only safety feature was power brakes. Safety features are nice but if the stuff you can afford doesnt come with them, or comes with bad implementations of them, not much you can do.
Im not down on safety equipment. Like I said, if you like it, get it, its not bad and its probably better, and the more expensive stuff is probably really good these days. But personally I am not a fan on anything I have ridden or driven, probably because im driving and riding at the "broke ***" end of the scale.
They had a hand in moving things forward, though - weren't they the first with ABS on an SS in 2009? The system they used there would be modern enough for me
They were among the first, but Honda is still using the same ABS system now that they introduced in 2009. The others might have been later to the game, but they've brought newer hardware, and this tech has been evolving fast. There are times when Honda is innovative, and other times when they are frustratingly slow and overly conservative. The cbr1000 is the same bike now that was introduced in 2008 (with one styling update in 2012) and it was arguably too conservative even back then, which made it a slow seller. It's likely hard for them to justify spending money to update and redesign a slow seller. (They spent that money on DN01s, and VFR1200s, and dual-clutch semiautomatic gearboxes, and bikes powered by half of a Honda Jazz/Fit car engine, instead)
The cbr250 ABS system is built to a price ...
I've ridden two bikes with ABS - a rental 2007 BMW F800ST for a couple of weeks, and my new Kawasaki. The F800ST ABS system did everything people complain about ... judder the brake lever, brake noticeably less hard once the ABS did kick in, false-trip when braking over rough surfaces. I don't recall what the brake lever feel was like but the S1000R certainly has a strange feel to it, even without actually being in ABS mode. The Kawasaki just feels ... normal. It's unobtrusive. The lever feels normal, the brake engagement feels normal. Squeeze the lever hard (to intentionally activate ABS) and the bike just plain stops. No drama, no juddering at the lever nor in the suspension.
The cbr250 ABS system is built to a price ...
I've ridden two bikes with ABS - a rental 2007 BMW F800ST for a couple of weeks, and my new Kawasaki. The F800ST ABS system did everything people complain about ... judder the brake lever, brake noticeably less hard once the ABS did kick in, false-trip when braking over rough surfaces. I don't recall what the brake lever feel was like but the S1000R certainly has a strange feel to it, even without actually being in ABS mode. The Kawasaki just feels ... normal. It's unobtrusive. The lever feels normal, the brake engagement feels normal. Squeeze the lever hard (to intentionally activate ABS) and the bike just plain stops. No drama, no juddering at the lever nor in the suspension.
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