Scenario ... Uninsured bike stolen gets into a crash ? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Scenario ... Uninsured bike stolen gets into a crash ?

chiller

chiller

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Dinner table conversation tonight ...

if someone stole one of my bikes that I do not have insured nor plated and then got into a crash. Me as the legal owner is not responsible are they ? The damage or crime was that it was stolen and me as the owner is absolved of any issues right ?
 
There was a case where a guy sold a car and the buyer did not go to the Ministry to change the ownership, but drove the car and seriously injured himself in an accident. The original owner was forced to pay for everything because he still owned the car. He had cancelled the insurance. That is the closest thing I can think of to what you are asking. BTW, you must have your vehicle plated and insured in Ontario. You cannot own a vehicle with an expired plate anymore.
 
Roadghost said:
BTW, you must have your vehicle plated and insured in Ontario. You cannot own a vehicle with an expired plate anymore.
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Why ? Where does it say this ? And when did this change ? I've always had at least one of my bikes not insured or plated (one of my bikes currently has no insurance nor plate on it)
 
chiller said:
Why ? Where does it say this ? And when did this change ? I've always had at least one of my bikes not insured or plated (one of my bikes currently has no insurance nor plate on it)
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Nothing has changed and you can still own uninsured and unplated cars. One of my cars is effectively uninsured and unplated for a few months each year when it goes into the garage for winter storage. I cancel insurance in the fall, and don't bother renewing the sticker or insurance until spring when I'm ready to start driving it again.

Your scenario is something else. Anyone can sue anyone else in Ontario for almost any reason at all.

If your bike is stolen by a thief who then causes injury to a third party, the third party can certainly sue you. Your bike did the damage and you as the bike's owner are responsible for what happens when your bike is used.

Your defence will be that the bike was stolen, but the injured party will come back and say that you failed to take all reasonable steps to keep the bike from being stolen. You will say that you took the key out of it. They will say that this was inadequate and that the bike should have been chained up inside a secured building and the bike further secured with an ignition immobilizer and even by pulling the battery. You will claim that you did your due diligence, and they will try to paint you as negligent.

You may ultimately win in the end, or not, depending on who has the most persuasive argument. With the costs of litigation being what it is, you may simply decide to throw some money on the table to make the third party go away.
 
Roadghost said:
BTW, you must have your vehicle plated and insured in Ontario. You cannot own a vehicle with an expired plate anymore.
Click to expand...

There is no law saying a motor vehicle must be plated and insured (unless being driven on a highway of course).
 
Roadghost said:
There was a case where a guy sold a car and the buyer did not go to the Ministry to change the ownership, but drove the car and seriously injured himself in an accident. The original owner was forced to pay for everything because he still owned the car. He had cancelled the insurance. That is the closest thing I can think of to what you are asking. BTW, you must have your vehicle plated and insured in Ontario. You cannot own a vehicle with an expired plate anymore.
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This kinda sounds... not true to me. The bill of sale (assuming he kept a copy) would be proof that he sold the car, not the registration. Plus uninsured motorist coverage* should have kicked in. Unless he failed to remove his plates before the new "owner" drove off with it.

Or maybe not? I just tried reading up on uninsured motorist coverage and the caveats are going over my head
 
chiller said:
Why ? Where does it say this ? And when did this change ? I've always had at least one of my bikes not insured or plated (one of my bikes currently has no insurance nor plate on it)
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I suppose I should eventually look up the exact amendment for everyone, but I'm too lazy. I went to Service Ontario last year and found out the hard way on a car I had stored. That is all.
 
griff2 said:
Nothing has changed and you can still own uninsured and unplated cars. One of my cars is effectively uninsured and unplated for a few months each year when it goes into the garage for winter storage. I cancel insurance in the fall, and don't bother renewing the sticker or insurance until spring when I'm ready to start driving it again.

Your scenario is something else. Anyone can sue anyone else in Ontario for almost any reason at all.

If your bike is stolen by a thief who then causes injury to a third party, the third party can certainly sue you. Your bike did the damage and you as the bike's owner are responsible for what happens when your bike is used.

Your defence will be that the bike was stolen, but the injured party will come back and say that you failed to take all reasonable steps to keep the bike from being stolen. You will say that you took the key out of it. They will say that this was inadequate and that the bike should have been chained up inside a secured building and the bike further secured with an ignition immobilizer and even by pulling the battery. You will claim that you did your due diligence, and they will try to paint you as negligent.

You may ultimately win in the end, or not, depending on who has the most persuasive argument. With the costs of litigation being what it is, you may simply decide to throw some money on the table to make the third party go away.
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This sounds about right base on what my insurer and paralegal have said. You have to make sure you've done your part from by preventing it from being stolen.. That means keys out, battery out, and have it in a place that cannot be easily accessed.
 
Jimsun said:
This sounds about right base on what my insurer and paralegal have said. You have to make sure you've done your part from by preventing it from being stolen.. That means keys out, battery out, and have it in a place that cannot be easily accessed.
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Dont track bikes fall in the uninsured unplated category... kinda scarry to think of it. . What if your friends take your track bike out on the track and hurt someone.. who is responsible?

Isnt the rule of thumb everyone pays for their own.. is their a law or legal president in this regard.
 
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shahfaisal said:
Dont track bikes fall in the uninsured unplated category... kinda scarry to think of it. . What if your friends takes your track bike out on the track and hurts someone.. who is responsible?

Isnt the rule of thumb everyone pays for their own.. is their a law or legal president in this regard.
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You're responsible because it's your property by right.

The latter is a courtesy/belief.
 
Waivers aren't worth the paper they are printed on.


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You also have to look at the other possibilities in certain scenarios.

What if someone took their own uninsured bike out for a test spin, did
damage or injury, fled the scene, and then claimed that the bike was stolen.

Both the police and the courts would have to look into to situation, to see if this is potentially the case.
 
Roadghost said:
There was a case where a guy sold a car and the buyer did not go to the Ministry to change the ownership, but drove the car and seriously injured himself in an accident. The original owner was forced to pay for everything because he still owned the car. He had cancelled the insurance. That is the closest thing I can think of to what you are asking. BTW, you must have your vehicle plated and insured in Ontario. You cannot own a vehicle with an expired plate anymore.
Click to expand...

chiller said:
Why ? Where does it say this ? And when did this change ? I've always had at least one of my bikes not insured or plated (one of my bikes currently has no insurance nor plate on it)
Click to expand...

Hardwrkr13 said:
There is no law saying a motor vehicle must be plated and insured (unless being driven on a highway of course).
Click to expand...

Many municipalities have by-laws (typically under Property Standards) that prohibit unlicensed, inoperable, wrecked, etc. vehicles from being stored on the land of a property. So the only way to do so is to store said vehicle inside a building (garage, shed, etc.).

There are obvious exceptions to this rule... car dealerships, auto repair shops, vehicle pounds, scrap yards, just to name a few.
 
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bww77 said:
Many municipalities have by-laws that prohibit unlicensed, inoperable, wrecked, etc. vehicles from being stored on the exterior of a property.
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Yes, but that affects only storage of vehicles on a residential property, and not the ownership itself of an unlicensed, uninsured vehicle which is something else completely and which is beyond the purview of the municipality.
 
griff2 said:
Yes, but that affects only storage of vehicles on a residential property, and not the ownership itself of an unlicensed, uninsured vehicle which is something else completely and which is beyond the purview of the municipality.
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Property Standards covers all properties not just residential properties within the municipality. One would need to read the bylaw for your own municipality for the exact wording.

I agree it does not deal with ownership nor insurance, but it does deal with unlicensed (unplated/not valid sticker) vehicles on the property (exterior areas).
 
This happened to me in the 90's. Got a sweet deal on a bike and was gonna flip it. Brought it home, put it in the garage and put it in the auto trader. Calls started coming in. One said he'd be there at 7:30. He never showed...he came that night with his buddies and ripped the side door off the garage and stole the bike. One year later I get a call from popo asking me to come and see them. I did. The guy smashed the bike and was seen running from the accident scene. Cop described the guy as me, tall, brown hair... tried telling me it was me who smashed and ran. I told him the bike was stolen a year ago and I had the police report.. Months went by and they caught the guy. Hardened criminal. Cop (face looking at the ground) apologized. Gave me back the smashed bike. The engine was still good, so I sold it and got my money back out of it. No word of damages or insurance. I think that's why we all pay a premium for uninsured vehicles. It goes in the pot for this reason. Never, NEVER talk to police. The fukhead tried to blame me for stealing my own bike and smashing it and running. They are dumb bastards.
 
It used to be that you could register a vehicle unplated, but when I went to do this earlier this year, I was unable to. I had to register the bike and with the registration comes the plates. But since it was uncertified at the time, I could not get the sticker. That's the difference now. And of course I needed proof of insurance to register.
 
TO Bandit said:
It used to be that you could register a vehicle unplated, but when I went to do this earlier this year, I was unable to. I had to register the bike and with the registration comes the plates. But since it was uncertified at the time, I could not get the sticker. That's the difference now. And of course I needed proof of insurance to register.
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You register a vehicle as fit or unfit. You can register as fit if you have an etest, safety standards certificate and insurance in place at time of registration. If you do not have all of these, you can still change the registration to your name, but the vehicle is registered as unfit and the vehicle will remain unplated until you do get the etest, safety and insurance in place.
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