Bike won't start - accessory wired and petcock left on night before | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Bike won't start - accessory wired and petcock left on night before

No tach, and I'm not sure what 3k rpm sounds like, but I was holding it steady at a pretty high "whine" for at least 5-6 seconds, checked 3 times

Since I've been moving things around inside near the wiring, is there a chance something came undone/loosened? Any way to check the stator or alternator using a voltmeter?
 
Sounds like your rectifier/regulator is effed.

Your shop/service manual will have the correct resistance values that you can use to test the stator, pickup and rectifier.
 
Quick Test Steps:

1.) key off................Normal 12.7 volts-12.9 volts

2.) key on (but not cranking with lights for 10 sec).....Normal 12.2-12.5 volts

3.) at idle (1500 rpm).....12.6volts - 13.2volts

4.) at 2500 rpm 13.5 -14.0 volts

5.) at 5000 rpm.....14.0 -15.0 volts

6.) key off.....slightly higher than measurements # 1 (12.8-13.0 v)

QUICK TEST Diagnosis Summary:

Basically Step #1 and #2 is making sure the battery is charged and in good health. The drop should be about 0.5 volts for normal headlamp and coil load (without cranking the starter). Anymore than 0.5V drop indicates the battery is weak even though the static voltage is OK (12.7-12.8V)

Step #3 is get a baseline starting voltage. This will vary some depending upon your idle and the particular R/R you have. It could be lower than the off voltage or as you idle up it will increase to 13.0 v

Step #4 by the time you get to 2500 RPM you should have close to the maximum output voltage even if you have bad connections. You are not pushing as much current and this shows that the stator is likely good.

Step #5 by the voltage at 5000 RPM being higher than at 2500 RPM you have a pretty good indication that your connections are good. If the voltage at 5000 drops from 2500 you have bad connections. If you already checked the grounds then it is likely in the positive legs between R/R(+) and Battery (+) check fuse box and the large bullet connector to the battery. The voltage climbs above 15.0 V it is likely the R/R not regulating and is bad bad.

Step #6 If after running for a few seconds in a charging state the voltage to the battery should have risen a bit. If it is lower than where you started then you did not charge at all, Again this will vary some what depending upon how long you let the bike run.


Good Luck
 
zaltec said:
No tach, and I'm not sure what 3k rpm sounds like, but I was holding it steady at a pretty high "whine" for at least 5-6 seconds, checked 3 times

Since I've been moving things around inside near the wiring, is there a chance something came undone/loosened? Any way to check the stator or alternator using a voltmeter?
Click to expand...

Could be a loose or corroded connection. Easiest way to know is to check the magneto and charging system are in fact working.

Page 61, 62
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B71X1E1yPBojd2hpTmlDbkJGNDg
 
Thanks folks, I'll check some things after this damned rain stops... would be nice to have a garage

Thinking it may be related to the regulator/rectifier, it sits under the seat immediately next to the battery/CDI... I was wondering what the large heatsink was for :)
 
zaltec said:
...
Idling: 13.63
Revving: 13.32 - 13.35
Click to expand...

Ok, so this is progress. Your alternator or RR is not putting out enough electricity to recharge your battery. As you ride you drain your battery.

I know that on older Honda cruisers that they have RR problems, specifically called the "3 yellow wire" fix. Basically the connector from the RR to the battery corroded/burned up and therefore does not transfer sufficient power to the battery. The battery dies, the quick diagnostic (which you just did) points to the stator or RR. The fix was to remove the connector, clean up the wires, solder and heat shrink these important wires back together, and retest. Usually stators and RRs are very robust and should not give you trouble.

From your battery wires, trace back to the regulator/rectifier, then back to your stator. Look for burned out wires, blackened, melted plastic sheathing, wires that are shorting out, anything that does not look normal. You might need your bike's GV250 maintenance manual, which you should have anyway. Fix anything that looks like burned toast. While you're in there, check each wire, connector for electrical connectivity with your multimeter. Also check that your battery terminals are clean and tight.

In the mean time, research your bike and stator/RR issues. I'm sure there is a lot of info out there. This may be a common issue with your GV250.
 
Electrosport is a supplier of motorcycle stators/RRs. They have a page for the GV250 in their Common Technical issues area. I have not used their stuff, but know the company is well respected.
 
Pulled the RR out and tested it, results are;

1) Ground to top-left, red to bottom 3 pins; 414, 416, 416
2) Ground to top-right, red to bottom 3 pins; 1/1/1 (nothing)
3) Red to top-left, ground to bottom 3 pins; 1/1/1 (nothing)
4) Red to top-right, ground to bottom 3 pins; 427, 409, 412
 
zaltec said:
Pulled the RR out and tested it, results are;

1) Ground to top-left, red to bottom 3 pins; 414, 416, 416
2) Ground to top-right, red to bottom 3 pins; 1/1/1 (nothing)
3) Red to top-left, ground to bottom 3 pins; 1/1/1 (nothing)
4) Red to top-right, ground to bottom 3 pins; 427, 409, 412
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what this is. At the very least, your units seem off. Try doing the test on page 63 of the service manual. Fill in the chart with the values you get. You should be comparing each of the 5 connections to the remaining 4.
 
gv250_rr_test.jpg
 
That was using the diode setting on the multimeter, as suggested in the ElectroSport fault finding diagram, and from information I found online on testing the RR. The manual (btw, thanks for the references, but I have the 2009 non-FI, found the manual at http://www.idoodle.org/docs/GV250_Service_Manual.pdf ... it's basically the same anyway, just different pin-outs on the RR).

The manual says to use the x1ohm setting to test, which I'm not sure I have, or I'm mis-reading it or the meter. I tried it with 200ohm (lowest listed), and get no readings. I've got a slightly older version of this one; http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/tools-hardware/electrical-tools-accessories/electrical-supplies-parts/testers/mastercraft-digital-multimeter-0520060p.html

And thanks again for the assistance. I haven't figured out the issue yet, but I'm learning lots... lol
 
I see, yeah slightly different connector and values for that year, but roughly the same chart. 200ohms should work to give you a reading. I would try again taking note of which colour is - and which is +, and what # the pins are.
 
So, no reading using the ohms setting, but the diode test should be correct from the other sources I found... I also had them test the battery at canadiantire yesterday, came up good, so they said. Can't find any loose connections or bad wiring that I can see.

I'm about ready to take it in to a shop this week. Any other tests I can do to see if it's the starter or another component? Is it worth trying to jump from a car battery (car not running), would that eliminate the starter being an issue?

Even if I don't figure out the issue, I've learned a lot... as a techie type, that's at least a plus, but it still bugs me I haven't been able to figure it out :)

Oh, and TorontoBoy, if you didn't get my reply to your PM I did try to send it... nothing showed in my Sent Items, but it does have the "replied to" icon next to your PM, so I'm unsure. Just let me know if you didn't get it.

Thanks.
 
zaltec said:
... Is it worth trying to jump from a car battery (car not running), would that eliminate the starter being an issue?...
Click to expand...

If you can start your bike from jump starting from a car (car not runnning), this would show that your starter is Ok and your battery is bad. If you cannot start from a jump start, then this would show there are other issues, such as the starter, or fuses, or something else. Jump starting would not give you info on the stator or RR. Revving your bike to 3k rpm and testing for voltage (you've done this already) would test your bike's alternator/stator/RR.

It is worth the effort to jump start your bike from a car.
 
zaltec said:
Jump start from car battery was a failure, exact same slow/sluggish turn-over sound :(
Click to expand...

Then the power source isn't your problem. It has to be the starter, or the circuit delivering power to the starter. You can try hooking 12v right to the starter, see if it cranks any better.
 
Only one wire going into the starter, just hook the pos cable up there, and ground to frame, and try to start? Need to disconnect the existing wire first?
 
zaltec said:
Only one wire going into the starter,
Click to expand...
Generally that's the case. The starter motor takes 12v in, and grounds itself through it's connection to the engine case.

zaltec said:
just hook the pos cable up there, and ground to frame, and try to start?
Click to expand...
Yep. As soon as you hook the + to that wire the motor will turn over.

zaltec said:
Need to disconnect the existing wire first?
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter. It would normally have 12v running through it anyway.
 
Can hear the starter move, but doesn't start the motor. Also doesn't sound the same as when I use the starter switch (no chugging/sluggish sound, just the starter motor itself).
 
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