Relatively new rider here (~6 months) with a ninja 250 (no ABS). I've felt this a few times when hard braking at both fast and slow speeds. I will do some hard braking and I feel a minor sliding sensation. I say sensation because I'm not convinced that my wheels were actually locking up. I remained upright every time and never felt like I was going to go down. Does this sound like wheel lock?
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Sliding sensation when hard braking?
- Thread starter Matty8
- Start date
*lightbulb* you know what, both scenarios when this happened were at intersections, one I was stopping at (and overshot a little), one I was coming in fast and braking hard before cornering (also overshot my turn in point and was forced into the outer lane). I could have been sliding on nasty oil and gunk build up in the center of the lane. I don't recall being in the center of the lane when it happened this morning, but I can't say for sure that I wasn't either.
Anyways, i'll let someone with more experience tell me which is more likely.
Anyways, i'll let someone with more experience tell me which is more likely.
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No screeching noise.
Given the two scenarios you laid out I would guess you were right at the apex of a lockup. Skidding sensation is not a normal feel when stopping. If you were on the "oil and gunk" in the center of the lane, you would have locked up and gone down.
I would look hard at why your needing to brake so hard. This is again not normal. Overshooting an intersection, shows lack of awareness. This can get you dead real quick. Travelling into the oncoming/outer lane in a corner/curve can get you dead just as fast. Did you take a rider training course?
Highly possible, I feel fairly confident with my front brake control, but I really don't pay much attention to the rear brake when braking hard. I honestly can't say if I press it hard or soft, my guess would be I jam it.
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I ride aggressively sometimes, I will admit, I wouldn't say its lack of awareness though. This morning I was braking that hard racing a red light. The approach to the intersection is a curve, so I had to do all my braking in a very short space once I was up right. I landed up going into the other lane because I knew I could (nobody to my immediate right), and it allowed me to brake longer.
I took the M1 Exit course with Learning Curves.
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play with rear braking more, and get a feel of rear wheel sliding out. Its part of the learning curve. Remember loose the grib..
You wouldn't always hear a noise. I never hear in fact, and I do skiddies every time I ride.
OP - if you still have the stock tires on the Ninja, it is super easy to lock the rear on them. The bike is already as light as it is, and when you transfer all the weight to front by braking hard, the rear becomes so light that you can actually lock the rear only by downshifting. When you add in the slightest pressure on the rear brake, it's a guaranteed lock. It is only a "sensation" because the rear only follows the front. You will definitely know if you ever lock the front brake as you may meet the pavement lol
People do this on purpose (2:50 - 3:00): https://youtu.be/ugaiZRC7SHA?t=2m50s
(8:38 ) https://youtu.be/8amppGTKWkY?t=8m38s
So, learn how to ease the rear brake while hard braking and/or enjoy the slides.
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Bikerider
Well-known member
My rear locks up and slides when I practice breaking hard from 100 to 0. The suspension on my bike is quite soft so when I grab the front the forks compress the there is less weight on the back so its easy to slide. I learned to control the slides and enjoy them actually. I can stop without sliding too obviously but when I practice my emergency breaking from high speed I embrace them.
Riceburner
Well-known member
sounds like you are likely locking the rear. Very easy, especially for a noob.
Sounds like you need to learn to modulate the rear brake better. My students usually alway just hammer on the rear brake and need to work on applying and then gradually applying more and more as you stop. Most people when new use their brakes like an on off switch instead of learning to apply the brake and gradually increase pressure.
vociferous
Well-known member
this makes me nervous.
are you not braking at all in corners? have you been told by others that you cant brake in corners?
aggressive riding that results in sudden braking/improper control, is lack of awareness. im not trying to rag on you, just want you to be aware. there is a time where aggressive riding is less dangerous, and anywhere near lit intersections is not one of them
At least on the bikes I've ridden, the rear brake requires little pressure to lock up... even less so when all the weight is on the front. We naturally aren't as dextrous with our feet as we can be with our fingers. The nerve endings are way more accessible through glove fingers than through a boot sole. Maybe try gripping the tank tighter with your knees to isolate your braking foot to give yourself more feel down there.
With that braking bias dynamic ratio in mind, it can easily mean (by easily I mean in almost 100% of the cases) that the rear is locking up because too much front brake pressure is being applied in comparison to the rear.
Occasionally semi locking up is not necessarily a bad thing however, if safety is a high priority for you, it should not be a regular occurrence with a street moto on street tires on a high grip surface in good conditions. May want to give yourself lots more decel headroom.
Also are you downshifting adequately? You can get extra braking effort from the engine if in an "appropriate" gear at that point in time.
With that braking bias dynamic ratio in mind, it can easily mean (by easily I mean in almost 100% of the cases) that the rear is locking up because too much front brake pressure is being applied in comparison to the rear.
Occasionally semi locking up is not necessarily a bad thing however, if safety is a high priority for you, it should not be a regular occurrence with a street moto on street tires on a high grip surface in good conditions. May want to give yourself lots more decel headroom.
Also are you downshifting adequately? You can get extra braking effort from the engine if in an "appropriate" gear at that point in time.
Regarding sliding sensations...
If you are slowing down and the bike is moving laterally (side to side) then you have locked up the rear. You will *not* feel vibrations through the rear brake pedal because the rear wheel is now stationary. (Alternate possibility - you have installed an aftermarket seat that you either skipped the instructions for, or it just plain sucks, and the seat itself is now moving side to side)
If you are on your back and looking up at the sky, wondering what just happened, you have locked up the front. It is possible to briefly lock up the front without instantly low-siding, but it takes some doing. Also, don't take this to discourage you from relying on the front brake - usually it takes poor road conditions (gravel, wet streetcar tracks/expansion joints, ice) to lock it up.
On some bikes that are undersprung and/or underdamped, hard braking will cause the bike to dive. This is a fore and aft movement that may feel like sliding, and it is completely normal.
If you are slowing down and the bike is moving laterally (side to side) then you have locked up the rear. You will *not* feel vibrations through the rear brake pedal because the rear wheel is now stationary. (Alternate possibility - you have installed an aftermarket seat that you either skipped the instructions for, or it just plain sucks, and the seat itself is now moving side to side)
If you are on your back and looking up at the sky, wondering what just happened, you have locked up the front. It is possible to briefly lock up the front without instantly low-siding, but it takes some doing. Also, don't take this to discourage you from relying on the front brake - usually it takes poor road conditions (gravel, wet streetcar tracks/expansion joints, ice) to lock it up.
On some bikes that are undersprung and/or underdamped, hard braking will cause the bike to dive. This is a fore and aft movement that may feel like sliding, and it is completely normal.
Snobike Mike
Banned
You really need to reassess your approach to riding. You are just asking for a world of hurt based on several of the scenarios you've described in this thread.
DucatiDan
Well-known member
Agree with a lot of the feedback given in the above posts. Go to an empty lot on a Sunday morning and practice accelerating hard through gears 1,2,3 then getting stopped as quickly as possible. Try 0-100 then 100-0. Get used to using engine breaking to slow you down, downshifting while breaking front & rear without locking any of it up. You don't want the first time you try these maneuvers to be when a cement mixer is coming in the opposite direction.
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