Teachers on strike | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Teachers on strike

Let's do the math on this one shall we?
Teacher:
8:30 - 3:30 - 7 hours per day, 5 days a week = 35 hours
9 months a year (2 months summer, 2 weeks winter, 1 week spring) = 39 weeks
35 x 39 = 1365 hours/year

Private sector anything:
9 - 5 - 8 hours per day, 5 days a week = 40 hours
50 weeks per year (52 - 2 weeks holiday)
40 x 50 = 2000 hours per year

Are you trying to tell us that the average teacher spends 635 hours per year doing prep/report cards/etc.?

If it wasn't such a good gig, why are there 7000 unemployed teachers in Ontario? Supply and demand have a serious discrepancy, why do you suppose that is? Furthermore, the numbers above assume the person in the private sector doesn't take work home either, which many, many do. And it also assumes the teachers are working the entire time they're at school. Which, in many cases, isn't the case. When I was in high school ~20 years ago, we had 4 classes per day, at 78 minutes per class. Each teacher was required to teach 3 classes per day. The 4th class was essentially a spare for them. 78 x 3 = 234 minutes, or just shy of 4 hours. Furthermore, the numbers above are based off office hours, if you work construction or factory, you work 8 hours a day, but are at work for 8.5 hours per day.

To say that teachers here don't get any respect is laughable. In the southern States quite probably they don't, but here, they get more than anywhere on Earth. What the Ontario gov't should do, take the average class size of all G8, or G20 nations, average teacher salary of those nations, and get a $/child figure. Then pay teachers in Ontario that number adjusted for cost of living in each area (Toronto is clearly more expensive to live in than North Bay). I bet if each teacher got paid more if their class size was bigger, there wouldn't have been a strike. TA's would also be accounted for in this equation.

This would put an end to strikes/mediation/unions and all other horse$#!T associated with that sector. To those that use teacher retirement as a source for debate, unlike other public sector employees, TEACHERS pay into their pension, not the average Ontarion.

They are paid 10 months over 12.

In the past they used to just be paid for 10 months they are working and in the summer they received no pay. Then they had an option of spreading it out over the 12. Then the government realized they could save money through deferred payment and made the 10 over 12 mandatory.

Top pay for a class room teacher is mid 90s (10 years at the top pay grade--A4). That is the educational equivalent of a Master’s Degree. Now technically the mid 90s is for only 10 months so that works out to 114K per year (TOP pay scale only) IF they were paid for the full 12 months (not 10 over 12). In most professions a person with 10 years of experience and a professional level education equivalent to a master’s degree would be in that range (some less, some more). I am not talking about an arts degree here, but a professional degree. The pay for the lower pay grades is lower, and is entirely based on education level and years of experience with a cap at 10 years.

The number of unemployed teachers is more about the greed of the universities and about the high number of arts student grads. Teachers College WAS a 1 year program in Ontario. Many grads from unemployable degrees saw it as a way to fix their mistake. One more year of school and they can have a job… Then the universities saw a cash cow and churned them out in very high numbers. Add to this the grads unwillingness to move (they wanted a quick easy fix, moving is out of the question) to another part of the province meant that around the BEd schools the number of unemployed teachers is much higher, while other parts of the province are importing teachers from US schools or other provinces. There was obviously not enough oversight. This has been partially corrected, the program was just changed to a two year degree and the total number of students was not allowed to change. So now it is two years, less appealing as a mistake fix (twice the time twice the cost), there will be half as many grads per year going forward, longer term fix. In Alberta for example the teaching degree is a full four year program like other professions' undergrad degrees (Nursing, Engineering, etc.).

The move to a two year degree should also remove many of the future slacker teachers many complain about, many of these were the arts students looking for an easy mistake fix.

I am not saying they do not have it good, but if you don't know or understand how it works try asking first, many here are more than willing to explain it. Otherwise haters gonna hate, facts just get in the way of the hate...
 
Last edited:
What are they striking for? They need more holidays? More tax payer money? Aren't they already some of the highest paid in the world? Absolutely disgusting how greedy society has gotten. Screw the kids we want our Money and exorbitant benefits....NOW.

In the last 5 years in Canada ive seen more strikes from govt employees then my entire life in Aus. How do these clowns not realise how good they have it? Govt should just abolish their unions and tell them to get back to work or start looking for new work...guarantee there is a line up out the door of young teachers that would take their places.

I'm not sure what the contentious issues are or what harsh work conditions these teachers demand to be improved when they utter the battle cry "NO JUSTICE! NO PEACE!" at their rallies.
 
What are they striking for? They need more holidays? More tax payer money? Aren't they already some of the highest paid in the world? Absolutely disgusting how greedy society has gotten. Screw the kids we want our Money and exorbitant benefits....NOW.

They are fighting to give your kids a better learning environment. If it were up to the government they would pack them in like cattle and reduce the number of teachers on the payroll. That isn't good for our kids at all.
 
What are they striking for? They need more holidays? More tax payer money? Aren't they already some of the highest paid in the world? Absolutely disgusting how greedy society has gotten. Screw the kids we want our Money and exorbitant benefits....NOW.

In the last 5 years in Canada ive seen more strikes from govt employees then my entire life in Aus. How do these clowns not realise how good they have it? Govt should just abolish their unions and tell them to get back to work or start looking for new work...guarantee there is a line up out the door of young teachers that would take their places.

Please enlighten us regarding the last teacher's strike... to save you the time here are the details

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...-ontario-strikes-and-lockouts-since-1987.html

yes, lots of them in the five years you have been here...

Now lets look at Aus in just the last few years... (to be fair all different areas but still...)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-01/teachers-strike-at-langley-park/5359176

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-14/schools-to-close-as-victorian-teachers-strike/4517944

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-further-strikes/story-e6frg6nf-1226465374183

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...3-schools-closed/story-fnhocxo3-1226870863268

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/catholic-teachers-to-strike-over-new-pay-structure-20140718-ztxqq.html

How is your parallel reality working out?
 
Last edited:
They are paid 10 months over 12.

In the past they used to just be paid for 10 months they are working and in the summer they received no pay. Then they had an option of spreading it out over the 12. Then the government realized they could save money through deferred payment and made the 10 over 12 mandatory.

Top pay for a class room teacher is mid 90s (10 years at the top pay grade--A4). That is the educational equivalent of a Master’s Degree. Now technically the mid 90s is for only 10 months so that works out to 114K per year (TOP pay scale only) IF they were paid for the full 12 months (not 10 over 12). In most professions a person with 10 years of experience and a professional level education equivalent to a master’s degree would be in that range (some less, some more). I am not talking about an arts degree here, but a professional degree. The pay for the lower pay grades is lower, and is entirely based on education level and years of experience with a cap at 10 years.

The number of unemployed teachers is more about the greed of the universities and about the high number of arts student grads. Teachers College WAS a 1 year program in Ontario. Many grads from unemployable degrees saw it as a way to fix their mistake. One more year of school and they can have a job… Then the universities saw a cash cow and churned them out in very high numbers. Add to this the grads unwillingness to move (they wanted a quick easy fix, moving is out of the question) to another part of the province meant that around the BEd schools the number of unemployed teachers is much higher, while other parts of the province are importing teachers from US schools or other provinces. There was obviously not enough oversight. This has been partially corrected, the program was just changed to a two year degree and the total number of students was not allowed to change. So now it is two years, less appealing as a mistake fix (twice the time twice the cost), there will be half as many grads per year going forward, longer term fix. In Alberta for example the teaching degree is a full four year program like other professions' undergrad degrees (Nursing, Engineering, etc.).

The move to a two year degree should also remove many of the future slacker teachers many complain about, many of these were the arts students looking for an easy mistake fix.

I am not saying they do not have it good, but if you don't know or understand how it works try asking first, many here are more than willing to explain it. Otherwise haters gonna hate, facts just get in the way of the hate...

Wow, my wife appears to be grossly underpaid in the private sector, and you forgot to mention the pension.
I feel that Teachers are paid to retire, more than they are to teach.
 
Wow, my wife appears to be grossly underpaid in the private sector, and you forgot to mention the pension.
I feel that Teachers are paid to retire, more than they are to teach.

The pension is a dollar for dollar match by the employer (government), the employee puts in X dollars the employer matches the contribution by putting in X dollars. This is the same for police and fire--and I am sure other gov employees. It is also the same for Walmart employees (at least in the US), and many other corporate pension plans.

Now many plans that contribution match are defined contribution, some are defined benefit plans. The OTPP, OMERS and other gov employee plans are all defined benefit. In the case of the OTPP they are over 100% funded and they are very well run. If I could I would give them my money, and I do 20 to 30% up a year in the market...

Many corporate defined benefit plans are much sweeter than what the gov employees get. I used to work for a large Canadian Telecom company, I paid 2400 per year into the defined benefit pension plan, which would have paid me out 80% of my salary when I retired (near 100K per year payout). Teachers (and police/fire/etc.) pay out of pocket between 5 and 10K per year into the plan… Not as sweet as many private sector plans (I know many that you pay next to nothing and have a defined benefit), yet sweeter than many. A good deal, yes, as sweet as everyone thinks??

BTW, many defined benefit private sector plans are underwater because the deal was so sweet and the employee was paying next to nothing and it was based on employee growth—basically a pyramid scheme. OTPP is not built like this, dollar for dollar match and a high payment by the participants. In the case of my wife she will have contributed $400K to $500K into the plan out of pocket, dollar for dollar matched--like many private sector plans.

Of course you know all this because like many in this thread you are completely knowledgeable as to how it works…

As for your wife (I assume you are saying she has a professional masters, not some art degree), she chose her degrees and field, life is full of choices… Doesn't mean everyone else should be paid less, does it?

Edit: Doing some quick math, if we put the same amount of money into RRSP as the top paid teachers do into the plan--out of pocket (with no match) and could swing an average of 5% a year in returns we could pay ourselves 80K per yer until we were dead. Assumign we started when they started. If we index it we must also include the increased contribution so might only carry us until we are 90...
 
Last edited:

1 day strikes/protests are comparable to the children missing a whole month of school? Or to the post striking over the entire christmas holidays or the garbos striking and stinking up the entire city or the nurses that tried to strike... all of these people make ludicrous amounts tax payer money compared to the rest of Canada and the world...

Leeches the lot of them.
 
1 day strikes/protests are comparable to the children missing a whole month of school? Or to the post striking over the entire christmas holidays or the garbos striking and stinking up the entire city or the nurses that tried to strike... all of these people make ludicrous amounts tax payer money compared to the rest of Canada and the world...

Leeches the lot of them.

Just like here in the five years YOU have been here, the last full teachers strike here was 1997, next one will be in Sept 2015.... Haters gonna hate, don't let the facts get in the way.

Why not move back to Aus? Hate to play that card but if you hate all this so much and it "never" happens there, and it is so great? Must be a reason to stay?
 
Just like here in the five years YOU have been here, the last full teachers strike here was 1997, next one will be in Sept 2015.... Haters gonna hate, don't let the facts get in the way.

Why not move back to Aus? Hate to play that card but if you hate all this so much and it "never" happens there, and it is so great? Must be a reason to stay?

He cant he's a relative of Tony Abbot its hard to live that down there so he came here...BUT NOW THE SECRET IS OUT
 
Just like here in the five years YOU have been here, the last full teachers strike here was 1997, next one will be in Sept 2015.... Haters gonna hate, don't let the facts get in the way.

Why not move back to Aus? Hate to play that card but if you hate all this so much and it "never" happens there, and it is so great? Must be a reason to stay?

So teachers are the only govt employees in "Ontario" to strike in the last 5 years?

And yes before my kids get to school age I will be heading home, that has nothing to do with a teachers strike though.
 
The pension is a dollar for dollar match by the employer (government), the employee puts in X dollars the employer matches the contribution by putting in X dollars. This is the same for police and fire--and I am sure other gov employees. It is also the same for Walmart employees (at least in the US), and many other corporate pension plans.

Now many plans that contribution match are defined contribution, some are defined benefit plans. The OTPP, OMERS and other gov employee plans are all defined benefit. In the case of the OTPP they are over 100% funded and they are very well run. If I could I would give them my money, and I do 20 to 30% up a year in the market...

Many corporate defined benefit plans are much sweeter than what the gov employees get. I used to work for a large Canadian Telecom company, I paid 2400 per year into the defined benefit pension plan, which would have paid me out 80% of my salary when I retired (near 100K per year payout). Teachers (and police/fire/etc.) pay out of pocket between 5 and 10K per year into the plan… Not as sweet as many private sector plans (I know many that you pay next to nothing and have a defined benefit), yet sweeter than many. A good deal, yes, as sweet as everyone thinks??

BTW, many defined benefit private sector plans are underwater because the deal was so sweet and the employee was paying next to nothing and it was based on employee growth—basically a pyramid scheme. OTPP is not built like this, dollar for dollar match and a high payment by the participants. In the case of my wife she will have contributed $400K to $500K into the plan out of pocket, dollar for dollar matched--like many private sector plans.

Of course you know all this because like many in this thread you are completely knowledgeable as to how it works…

As for your wife (I assume you are saying she has a professional masters, not some art degree), she chose her degrees and field, life is full of choices… Doesn't mean everyone else should be paid less, does it?

Edit: Doing some quick math, if we put the same amount of money into RRSP as the top paid teachers do into the plan--out of pocket (with no match) and could swing an average of 5% a year in returns we could pay ourselves 80K per yer until we were dead. Assumign we started when they started. If we index it we must also include the increased contribution so might only carry us until we are 90...

Defined benefit is going the way of the dodo bird. (Actually it's gone from what I've seen). Is the pension indexed to inflation? How many years does it pay out? What's the earliest it can start?

Is your telecom still in one piece? Would have paid out? Like all of us, I know enough to be dangerous, and rely on others like yourself to tell me how ignorant I am. Wife has a PhD, not a Masters. Everything is relative. Take a look at what day care workers with full kindergarten and College teachers make.

Doing your math puts the risk on you to make that 5%, which isn't guaranteed. Teachers don't face that.
you need to try and compare apples to apples. What are the starting rates for a teacher? Can someone fresh out of teachers college look forward to freedom 51?

What about these sick days? Are they still carried over allowing earlier retirement? Is student enrolment still declining rapidly, forcing schools to close? Where are all those surplus teachers going? Could they be put to work? Provincial Gov't is overspending, where should the cuts be made?


The times they are a changin'.
 
So teachers are the only govt employees in "Ontario" to strike in the last 5 years?

And yes before my kids get to school age I will be heading home, that has nothing to do with a teachers strike though.

Because the thread title says "Teachers on strike" and that is the topic here?
 
Man oh man I wish I knew what the issues are. But the fact that the teachers have been FORCED back, I have no idea how they will deal with the hardships ahead. Maybe I don't want to know, I'm squeamish.
 
Because the thread title says "Teachers on strike" and that is the topic here?


... did I ever say the teachers have been on strike a bunch of times? I said govt employees yet you keep going on about 5 years worth of teacher strikes.

Teachers arent the only leeches on Ontario tax payers.
 
Defined benefit is going the way of the dodo bird. (Actually it's gone from what I've seen). Is the pension indexed to inflation? How many years does it pay out? What's the earliest it can start?

Is your telecom still in one piece? Would have paid out? Like all of us, I know enough to be dangerous, and rely on others like yourself to tell me how ignorant I am. Wife has a PhD, not a Masters. Everything is relative. Take a look at what day care workers with full kindergarten and College teachers make.

Doing your math puts the risk on you to make that 5%, which isn't guaranteed. Teachers don't face that.
you need to try and compare apples to apples. What are the starting rates for a teacher? Can someone fresh out of teachers college look forward to freedom 51?

What about these sick days? Are they still carried over allowing earlier retirement? Is student enrolment still declining rapidly, forcing schools to close? Where are all those surplus teachers going? Could they be put to work? Provincial Gov't is overspending, where should the cuts be made?


The times they are a changin'.

Is it a PhD in a professional degree field or other field (art History for example)? It has a big impact on what you are paid. If for example it was in Engineering well she should have started in or near the 100s. If it was Art History, McDonalds does not pay much :). So what profesional field is it, we don;t need details beyond that, I am interested to steer my kids away from it if it pays so little...

The defined benefit (private sector) is going away because the private sector ones were/are pyramid schemes and the employees in many cases paid/pay very little into it. They relied on an ever increasing number of employee paying into the plan (increase in the base of the pyramid), not much different than a Ponzi scheme. The telecom I used to work for is still solvent and so is the plan, but it is underfunded and like any pyramid scheme if the company fails, there will be some serious issues.

The public sector ones are still doing well due to the amount the employee’s pay into it and due to the match. They are actually funded more like a defined contrabution plan. The plans do not rely on an increase in the number of employees, they rely on what gets paid into the plan. If they switched to define contribution the plans would IMO be even sweeter for the public sector workers. This is IMO where people go wrong, they think all plans are the same and gov workers’ pay little into the plan and that it is the usual private sector ponzi scheme, and they have a hard time understanding…

The retirement age depends on how long you have been working and what percentage you take. If you take an early retirement you get less and they will reduce your payout at 65 based on CPP payout. If you work to 65 you get more… This is pretty common stuff.

BTW NAV of the OTPP is over $150B, yes with a B.

Yes the personal savings put the pressure on the person to pull the 5%. My point in this is they pay into it (a lot), it is not some freebee too big to fail autoworkers' deal (see above). They pay more (fire, police, nurses, teachers…) into their plan every year than most people save for retirement. In turn the plans are fat with cash.

They lost the sick day carryover last time around, some got to keep some of what was already accumulated, no more since. This is a tough one because in places where it is not carried (any place, private, public) people tend to use them like vacation days. The idea of carryover was to stop this, but then it got out of control…

Edit: Forgot this one, it is based on the last/best X years of earnings. I cannot remember the years but 5 comes to mind. This is how they index it. Not sure on post retirement, if it increases based on inflation. For example if at retirement you are set to collect 75% and you averaged 100K over the last five years you get 75K.

My Telecom example I was in was based on the best 5 years.
 
Last edited:
... did I ever say the teachers have been on strike a bunch of times? I said govt employees yet you keep going on about 5 years worth of teacher strikes.

Teachers arent the only leeches on Ontario tax payers.

Please list all the other ones in the last five years then...Ontario Gov workers.
 
Efficiency. Can a teacher upgrade pay thru extra credentials to the point we are paying $90g + goodies for a grade four teacher when a grade five student could teach the course. < eggsageratted for efect but comon.
 
just some food for thought...

at maximum pay, with a class size of 30 kids (I'm talking elementary here, not high school) a teacher makes $2.50/kid/hour...and this is based solely on school hours, not on anything done after school (courses, sports, clubs, meetings, interviews, reports, marking, planning, open houses, concerts, homework help etc)...much cheaper than your neighbourhood babysitter who is not even responsible for our country's future...and yes, I get paid in the summer, but only because it's spread out over 12 months instead of 10..

as for the private sector, I know several people with masters degrees that make much more than I make...and I'm happy for them because they obviously worked hard to get to where they are...

my pension plan is a forced savings plan...I cannot opt out of it and glad I will be able to have nice retirement in 15 years..

a 2 year degree for new teachers is a fabulous idea...not only will it cut down on the over supply but ensure better prepared candidates...plus many other provinces and countries had this already so we are just getting inline with them...

hate on me if you want, but you could've been a teacher too...
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom