Rosedale Valley Road - High Risk? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Rosedale Valley Road - High Risk?

I personally love this road but I assume people view the relatively gentle twists as a challenge to take them at speed.
 
The road is around the corner from me.

During the weekends (day) I dont typically see that many bikers.

I was there last night... and there were a lot of bikers but I didnt notice anyone being wreckless. I just missed the accident last night by 30 mins.
 
i take rosedale v all time. yah, very gentle. only part that has curve is @ begining coming from Aylmer going east to rosedale v.

god luck!
 
Its a nice gentle road, its fun to take with a passenger because its relaxed. it's a good road to learn on because it will make you curve back and forth.

However, SWIM has been known to take that road at over 100 when its clear and it becomes exciting for swim.





Why is this area so prone to deaths? (https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid=S208056VAL0)

I take this road whenever I am out, and I still cant believe how fast you must be going in order for this to be a fatal risk. The posted speed limit is 50 (rosedale valley road) and 60 (bay view).
 

Because n00bs/squids are ignorant of their own abilities. That entire section can be taken at 100+ the speed limit with ease but the curb, trees, poles etc. will cause squids/n00bs to fixate and crash. It doesn't help that many riders are ego filled and feel the need to prove something among their peers. Also the only time it's really clear is during the night where visibility is reduced.

Lowering the speed limit or throwing police patrols there won't solve the problem. Education will.
 
Ack! this crash sucks very badly and I am appalled.
It's early in the spring and the trees are dropping little gooey things all over beneath them.
At 1AM there's a chill and heavy dampness everywhere...
Now here comes buddy on his SuperSport. Too inexperienced to perceive when to be cautious?
Guys look around you - do you see the Nurburgring anywhere?
I don't.

ATGATT in the world won't help you when leaving the roadway and hitting trees.
Mostly placebo effect, unfortunately making one feel 'indestructible'...
And remember, the very finest helmet only allows open-coffin.
Now I don't mean to sound overly harsh on this poor fellow, who blew it.
But it's real-life, there is no dress-rehearsal (and no 'reset' button)!
And you must never, never, ever do this to a passenger. A very bad thing.

Also: your typical track-day tires are absolutely the worst in this situation.
Canadian riders need tires that warm up quickly and work well in the cold and wet...

So it's early and nobody really knows, but a 'perfect storm' at the confluence of several unfortunate circumstances appears to have ganged up on this guy - all very unlikely! But you'd be SHOCKED to realize just how easily this can happen.
Hopefully this guy's passing can open some eyes and his giving his life might help save some others.
Serious business? Oh yes.
Always, always be on your very best behaviour when carrying a passenger.
Think about it - you want to impress them? Go slow.
Going ridiculously slow will impress them, that you apparently grasp how precious and fragile they are...

We must all give our heads a shake, and don't let this unfortunate example go to waste.
I'm strugglin' to find some 'good' in this situation (but it's a tough gig).
Regards
 
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Ack! this crash sucks very badly and I am appalled.
It's early in the spring and the trees are dropping little gooey things all over beneath them.
At 1AM there's a chill and heavy dampness everywhere...
Now here comes buddy on his SuperSport. Too inexperienced to perceive when to be cautious?
Guys look around you - do you see the Nurburgring anywhere?
I don't.

ATGATT in the world won't help you when leaving the roadway and hitting trees.
Mostly placebo effect, unfortunately making one feel 'indestructible'...
And remember, the very finest helmet only allows open-coffin.
Now I don't mean to sound overly harsh on this poor fellow, who blew it.
But it's real-life, there is no dress-rehearsal (and no 'reset' button)!
And you must never, never, ever do this to a passenger. A very bad thing.

Also: your typical track-day tires are absolutely the worst in this situation.
Canadian riders need tires that warm up quickly and work well in the cold and wet...

So it's early and nobody really knows, but a 'perfect storm' at the confluence of several unfortunate circumstances appears to have ganged up on this guy - all very unlikely! But you'd be SHOCKED to realize just how easily this can happen.
Hopefully this guy's passing can open some eyes and his giving his life might help save some others.
Serious business? Oh yes.
Always, always be on your very best behaviour when carrying a passenger.
Think about it - you want to impress them? Go slow.
Going ridiculously slow will impress them, that you apparently grasp how precious and fragile they are...

We must all give our heads a shake, and don't let this unfortunate example go to waste.
I'm strugglin' to find some 'good' in this situation (but it's a tough gig).
Regards

+1. SO true.

Remember that rider who lost his life last year on Yonge street (just north of Gerrard) because of jaywalkers? Given the traffic and speed there at the site of the crash, he couldn't have possibly exceeded 50km on a straight, which to most of us is considered slow.
 
+1. SO true.

Remember that rider who lost his life last year on Yonge street (just north of Gerrard) because of jaywalkers? Given the traffic and speed there at the site of the crash, he couldn't have possibly exceeded 50km on a straight, which to most of us is considered slow.

That is an assumption. I have seen bikers going well over 80kph on yonge
 
RVR is fun at 100+ on a SS with new leathers, but unforgiving...especially when you pass a cop. Just saying.
 
Ack! this crash sucks very badly and I am appalled.
It's early in the spring and the trees are dropping little gooey things all over beneath them.
At 1AM there's a chill and heavy dampness everywhere...
Now here comes buddy on his SuperSport. Too inexperienced to perceive when to be cautious?
Guys look around you - do you see the Nurburgring anywhere?
I don't.

ATGATT in the world won't help you when leaving the roadway and hitting trees.
Mostly placebo effect, unfortunately making one feel 'indestructible'...
And remember, the very finest helmet only allows open-coffin.
Now I don't mean to sound overly harsh on this poor fellow, who blew it.
But it's real-life, there is no dress-rehearsal (and no 'reset' button)!
And you must never, never, ever do this to a passenger. A very bad thing.

Also: your typical track-day tires are absolutely the worst in this situation.
Canadian riders need tires that warm up quickly and work well in the cold and wet...

So it's early and nobody really knows, but a 'perfect storm' at the confluence of several unfortunate circumstances appears to have ganged up on this guy - all very unlikely! But you'd be SHOCKED to realize just how easily this can happen.
Hopefully this guy's passing can open some eyes and his giving his life might help save some others.
Serious business? Oh yes.
Always, always be on your very best behaviour when carrying a passenger.
Think about it - you want to impress them? Go slow.
Going ridiculously slow will impress them, that you apparently grasp how precious and fragile they are...

We must all give our heads a shake, and don't let this unfortunate example go to waste.
I'm strugglin' to find some 'good' in this situation (but it's a tough gig).
Regards

Great post. That perfect confluence of factors you're referring to...where does it start? What are the contributing factors? How does it come to this? I.E. A young man dead, his passenger in critical condition. I'm not expecting an answer from you specifically, just thinking out loud. My answer? It's the industry. That's where it starts, and that's where the solution to the carnage will come from. The CEO of KTM was recently quoted as saying something like, "If a bike has 200 HP, there's no place for it on the street". Why the sudden need for TC, ABS, Inertia sensors, power mapping etc? The industry makes huge profits on high horsepower bikes that *need* electronic "safety" aids. Why not produce lower horsepower bikes that make more sense for 90% of riders? Profit margins are lower, that's why. And how about the sod who sold that kid a gixxer 1K as a first bike? Where does his/her lack of responsibility come in? Just because the kid had the dosh and the license, doesn't absolve retailers who know better of their ethical responsibilities to the greater good. Or at least it shouldn't. Like bars who serve too much booze to certain people, MC retailers should also be held accountable. The list of factors goes on, and certainly includes the rider, r.i.p. but, young and stupid shouldn't get you killed, if the"village" raising you provided some additional guidance and nurturing in the forms of restrictions and laws. The industry is the most culpable factor IMO. (That includes cycle magazines/web sites etc, that make "racing"/"canyon carving" the expected norm of sport bikers)
 
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How do we know the kid bought the bike from a "retailer"? Was it a 2014 or 2015? Asking, as I can't tell, could be he bought it used in a private deal. Then do we as sellers have to look at the buyer, and determine if they are mature enough to buy a bike as this. Hell I have been riding for close to 35 years and I wouldn't suggest selling me that bike.

What are to be the criteria? Age? Experience? Now in this case the kid had neither, but say he was 25 and had 1 year riding. Or he had a full M.

Great post. That perfect confluence of factors you're referring to...where does it start? What are the contributing factors? How does it come to this? I.E. A young man dead, his passenger in critical condition. I'm not expecting an answer from you specifically, just thinking out loud. My answer? It's the industry. That's where it starts, and that's where the solution to the carnage will come from. The CEO of KTM was recently quoted as saying something like, "If a bike has 200 HP, there's no place for it on the street". Why the sudden need for TC, ABS, Inertia sensors, power mapping etc? The industry makes huge profits on high horsepower bikes that *need* electronic "safety" aids. Why not produce lower horsepower bikes that make more sense for 90% of riders? Profit margins are lower, that's why. And how about the sod who sold that kid a gixxer 1K as a first bike? Where does his/her lack of responsibility come in? Just because the kid had the dosh and the license, doesn't absolve retailers who know better of their ethical responsibilities to the greater good. Or at least it shouldn't. Like bars who serve too much booze to certain people, MC retailers should also be held accountable. The list of factors goes on, and certainly includes the rider, r.i.p. but, young and stupid shouldn't get you killed, if the"village" raising you provided some additional guidance and nurturing in the forms of restrictions and laws. The industry is the most culpable factor IMO. (That includes cycle magazines/web sites etc, that make "racing"/"canyon carving" the expected norm of sport bikers)
 
Why is this area so prone to deaths? (https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?snapid=S208056VAL0)

I take this road whenever I am out, and I still cant believe how fast you must be going in order for this to be a fatal risk. The posted speed limit is 50 (rosedale valley road) and 60 (bay view).

I'd say a noob with a 1000cc supersport is the greater risk. Being stupid and young comes in a close second.

M1 riders shouldn't be allowed on anything bigger than 125.
 
Great post. That perfect confluence of factors you're referring to...where does it start? What are the contributing factors? How does it come to this? I.E. A young man dead, his passenger in critical condition. I'm not expecting an answer from you specifically, just thinking out loud. My answer? It's the industry. That's where it starts, and that's where the solution to the carnage will come from. The CEO of KTM was recently quoted as saying something like, "If a bike has 200 HP, there's no place for it on the street". Why the sudden need for TC, ABS, Inertia sensors, power mapping etc? The industry makes huge profits on high horsepower bikes that *need* electronic "safety" aids. Why not produce lower horsepower bikes that make more sense for 90% of riders? Profit margins are lower, that's why. And how about the sod who sold that kid a gixxer 1K as a first bike? Where does his/her lack of responsibility come in? Just because the kid had the dosh and the license, doesn't absolve retailers who know better of their ethical responsibilities to the greater good. Or at least it shouldn't. Like bars who serve too much booze to certain people, MC retailers should also be held accountable. The list of factors goes on, and certainly includes the rider, r.i.p. but, young and stupid shouldn't get you killed, if the"village" raising you provided some additional guidance and nurturing in the forms of restrictions and laws. The industry is the most culpable factor IMO. (That includes cycle magazines/web sites etc, that make "racing"/"canyon carving" the expected norm of sport bikers)

Excusing myself from this particular incident, and the entire MC-world as a whole, and all emotion; a lot of "silly/preventable" tragedies are simply a self-regulation mechanism to streamline the DNA and gene pool.
 
^ No.

To answer a couple of questions raised a couple of posts up, this bike was not a current-generation GSXR1000. Looked more like 10-ish years old. No ABS, no traction control, none of that. But in all probability ... none of this would have mattered. Most run-off-the-road crashes don't involve actually losing traction on the road (that particular bike on that particular road would be capable of knee-on-the-ground ... do you really think the rider was doing that??). Most such crashes simply involve the rider not steering the bike properly, and going straight off.

And holding a retailer responsible for what their customer does with their product after they buy it, will destroy the entire industry. It's already in enough trouble. Do you hold the beer store responsible for drunk driving? Same thing.
 
Is this road worth the trip from mississauga? Just curious?

unless you want to the 'downtown route' and add it to the ramping. It's nice and scenic but I would never do it at high speed. There are only two ways in and out, speed trap potential - heck I think even last year they had kite strings cutting rider's necks.
 
^ No.

To answer a couple of questions raised a couple of posts up, this bike was not a current-generation GSXR1000. Looked more like 10-ish years old. No ABS, no traction control, none of that. But in all probability ... none of this would have mattered. Most run-off-the-road crashes don't involve actually losing traction on the road (that particular bike on that particular road would be capable of knee-on-the-ground ... do you really think the rider was doing that??). Most such crashes simply involve the rider not steering the bike properly, and going straight off.

And holding a retailer responsible for what their customer does with their product after they buy it, will destroy the entire industry. It's already in enough trouble. Do you hold the beer store responsible for drunk driving? Same thing.


I don't think expecting or requesting retailers not to sell high performance bikes to riders with beginners permits out of a sense of moral obligation if not some future legal restrictions will destroy the industry, which according to that reasoning, means the industry revolves around inexperienced riders buying high power bikes. It doesn't, but due to reduced sales numbers it does revolve around high profit, high powered bikes with high mark-up and plenty of electronic aids so "everyday" riders can handle the 160+ HP. If retailers of new, high powered bikes feel absolved of all responsibility to inexperienced riders because of the "safety" technology found on new bikes, then that's a symptom of the "disease" infecting the industry. My point is the industry is to blame for promoting "faster and faster" as the new norm through the incorporation of "safety" technology. But, as you point out, high tech will not keep an inexperienced, or an experienced rider for that matter, from target fixating as time and space are compressed to a never before experienced world of dangers/survival instincts, and running off road.

Same can be said for private "retailers" of used bikes. Why should they be absolved in situations like the above, i.e. selling a high performance bikes to a beginner? They shouldn't be out of a sense of morality, if not legislation.

I myself, personally, would not sell a gixxer 1000 to a "kid". In fact, years ago when selling a 1200 CC bike with 125 hp, I used the term, "not for beginners" in my ad, and I've seen that same phrase used many times in other ads too. There was a time when sales people selling new, high performance bikes, would not sell to "kids". I witnessed it once. But, times have changed...why? "Safety" technology, that's why.

If the beer store sells its product to an underage, or intoxicated buyer, it will be held responsible. They are not allowed to sell to anybody, anything at anytime, and wash their hands of the outcomes. Same should be said for high powered motorcycles, and their retailers, private or commercial. Remember, in civil courts, a person can be sued and found guilty of wrongful death without having broken any laws, but for acting recklessly and not having done his due diligence.

Thank goodness for the "hipster" cafe racer movement, making "slow" and simple bikes cool again. The industry needs more bikes like the new Ducati Scrambler for example: a fun bike to ride, and easy bike to own, and less likely to cause stupidity at insane speeds, especially in the hands of inexperienced riders, because that's not what the bike is "about".
 
If the beer store sells its product to an underage, or intoxicated buyer, it will be held responsible. They are not allowed to sell to anybody, anything at anytime, and wash their hands of the outcomes. Same should be said for high powered motorcycles, and their retailers, private or commercial. Remember, in civil courts, a person can be sued and found guilty of wrongful death without having broken any laws, but for acting recklessly and not having done his due diligence.

Sure.

If our licensing system contained different license classifications with meaningful tests to graduate between classifications, then perhaps such a thing could be enforceable. The bike dealers do want you to provide proof of insurance before they give you your new bike, but there are no licensing classifications that could allow them to distinguish between people who have enough experience for what they're buying, and people who don't.
 

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