Pulled over for Stunt (excessive speed), need advice! Please help. | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Pulled over for Stunt (excessive speed), need advice! Please help.

griff2 said:
Look again at the definitions of stunt driving. There are a number of aspects that fit the bill and that could be used to justify the stunt driving charge.
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I looked - I don't agree with you, but I also searched here and it looks like people have argued it before as well, so no point in both of us playing lawyer and explaining why we think the way we do
 
Real lawyer. Friends paralegal didn't show up to his court date and he got convicted.
 
If you can get get it dropped to 49 over take it and count your blessings.Your insurance company may not even check your abstract for the next three years.
 
the JP will always offer you something less(not always the best deal), but a lawyer will try and get a better deal (depends on the lawyer)

even if its 49 over take it and call it a day.
 
49 and over is an ideal resolution for me. i just hope my chances of getting that agreed upon out of court are decent. this has been really stressful.
 
YZFer said:
the JP will always offer you something less(not always the best deal), but a lawyer will try and get a better deal (depends on the lawyer)

even if its 49 over take it and call it a day.
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Just a clarification it will be the CROWN that will offer a reduced charged, NOT the JP the JP only hears the charge he/she is presented by the crown they don't offer plea bargains.

Having said that a JP has the discretion to not follow the recommendations from the crown and proceed with the original charge, (but unless you show up in court obviously stoned and ****** and give the JP a hard time it is VERY unlikely to occur).
 
That may be offered, it may not. It will depend on what the speed was.

What I would recommend is that you read some previous posts about what to do with a first appearance date, getting your disclosure, etc. Maybe consider asking a paralegal for his/her thoughts, and weigh your options carefully. Once you've seen how strong the case against you is, you can make your best decision what to do with the charge. My experience has shown me that if you just want to plead guilty to something, even if it is a lesser charge, you can probably do it yourself. If you want to be acquitted, hire a professional. It is going to cost you some money. Good luck!
 
You are giving the perception that there is a possibility they will give him a deal if he shows up on his own and you know very well there is no chance of that.

OP hire a lawyer, it will cost you but you won't regret it, this is a defining moment for you and not the time to leave things on others hands, take charge and give yourself the best odds.

... and delete all your posts from this thread... like right now!
Bike Cop said:
That may be offered, it may not. It will depend on what the speed was.

What I would recommend is that you read some previous posts about what to do with a first appearance date, getting your disclosure, etc. Maybe consider asking a paralegal for his/her thoughts, and weigh your options carefully. Once you've seen how strong the case against you is, you can make your best decision what to do with the charge. My experience has shown me that if you just want to plead guilty to something, even if it is a lesser charge, you can probably do it yourself. If you want to be acquitted, hire a professional. It is going to cost you some money. Good luck!
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griff2 said:
ONE conviction of speeding for 49 km or less would have minimal if any effect on your insurance rates. Any effect it did have would last 3 years.

No conviction at all is the ideal goal, but if the OP is able to arrange a plea deal to a simple speeding conviction of 49 or less over the limit, that might be a much better and safer option than rolling the dice and going forward with a trial for stunt driving.
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One single conviction can hurt a driver... big time. It depends on the insurance company. Let's not post generalizations that may mislead the OP into pleading to 49 kph over the limit without fully understanding the consequences.

This is why: Some companies, including the Co-operators, consider a speeding ticket of 45 over the limit or more as a major ticket. How do I know? Several years ago, it happened to me... to me "friend". Yes, I have a friend and it happened to him. :rolleyes:

Anyway, once that the company dumps you, it is only the beginning. Then other problems start as well, because a few other companies have filed rules stating they won't write anyone with a major conviction as a first time client. It is the snow ball effect. Then my friend had to go and argue and argue over the phone regarding the definitions of major and minor tickets at different companies.

To be sure, the OP has to reduce the charge to 44 kph over the limit. I do not want to make a generalization ;), but as far as I know, 44 kph or less is a minor ticket for all companies.
 
IMO, IF you plan on pleading guilty, you dont need to hire someone for 300+ dollars for it. You can simply go in, talk with the prosecutor and see what deal he/she offers. Most of the crowns will offer the same pleas to unrep. defendant's as with counsel.

IF you want a trial, get a good counsel. ;)
 
H4x0rz said:
IMO, IF you plan on pleading guilty, you dont need to hire someone for 300+ dollars for it. You can simply go in, talk with the prosecutor and see what deal he/she offers. Most of the crowns will offer the same pleas to unrep. defendant's as with counsel.

IF you want a trial, get a good counsel. ;)
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This is what I would like to do but why would they offer me a deal? I don't really have any sort of bargaining chip, or know any weakness in the crowns case against me.
I do need a vehicle to work and am currently paying back 40k in student loans and only make minimum wage, but I don't know if a prosecutor (thats who I meet with?) would care.
I just feel like i'm going into this blind and would feel comfortable having someone else who has done this and knows how it all works. It's stressful for me.
I really hope I can get it reduced to 49 over, not having a car means I can't work and set up job interviews etc (I recently graduated Uni and am looking for better jobs).
 
so this is what you are faced with....

http://www.pointts.com/services/fighting-stunt-driving-traffic-tickets/

I would perhpas suggest you give them a call, they offer free consultation

http://www.pointts.com/

I know of a person who was in the same boat as you, and in the end it was dropped to a 20 over speeding ticket, your outcome might vary, but one never knows the outcome until the dust settles....

Good luck

This by no means stipulates you use these guys, but I would suggest you find someone.....

I am not sure if you can do a first attendance meeting and see what they offer, and if you don't like it, get legal representation and set a trial date.....
 
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First attendances are recorded and if he incriminates himself on the recording then there is no one that can help him or it will be a hell of a lot more difficult.

OP you keep saying you are stressed and you keep trying to get advice from a bunch of people that at best can give you marginal advice and some that give you pretty bad one.
I know you don 't want to spend the money but on the long run it will be a lot cheaper to get legal representation from people that will give you more than their opinions.

Even two police officers in this thread are giving you different information, get a lawyer.
GateKeeper said:
so this is what you are faced with....

http://www.pointts.com/services/fighting-stunt-driving-traffic-tickets/

I would perhpas suggest you give them a call, they offer free consultation

http://www.pointts.com/

I know of a person who was in the same boat as you, and in the end it was dropped to a 20 over speeding ticket, your outcome might vary, but one never knows the outcome until the dust settles....

Good luck

This by no means stipulates you use these guys, but I would suggest you find someone.....

I am not sure if you can do a first attendance meeting and see what they offer, and if you don't like it, get legal representation and set a trial date.....
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ZX600 said:
First attendances are recorded and if he incriminates himself on the recording then there is no one that can help him or it will be a hell of a lot more difficult.

OP you keep saying you are stressed and you keep trying to get advice from a bunch of people that at best can give you marginal advice and some that give you pretty bad one.
I know you don 't want to spend the money but on the long run it will be a lot cheaper to get legal representation from people that will give you more than their opinions.

Even two police officers in this thread are giving you different information, get a lawyer.
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That first statement you make is not true, at least not in Mississauga, other municipalities might be different, but here they do not record it nor does it come up at trial of what you were offered before, it's a clean slate when you go to trial....
 
Yes, in York Region.....it's called an early resolution meeting where you get to sit with a JP in an informal meeting. They will try to work out a deal with you on a lower charge so it doesn't go to trial. It's a very costly and time consuming process.......
 
zzrt1150 said:
Yes, in York Region.....it's called an early resolution meeting where you get to sit with a JP in an informal meeting. They will try to work out a deal with you on a lower charge so it doesn't go to trial. It's a very costly and time consuming process.......
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Here in Mississauga it's a meeting with the Prosecutor, not a JP, and it don't cost anything but your time, most times it's not even a one on one, but right in the court room just before, they give you an offer, you take it or you don't, on the other hand once I was in the Orangeville area it was a one on one meeting in a private office/room
 
I dont know the background with ur case. IE what u were locked in with, etc (please don't post details here if i were u). Do you have any friends that are versed in the highway traffic act, and or related hta o.regs?

In Toronto, for the most part, JPs and crowns are a little more lieniant (in terms of proceedings) if you are self rep'd than if you were represented.

I dont know if paralegal services offer free consultation (ie look through disclosure and tell you what they think). In the end, from my experience, look at the type of speed measuring device used, testing times, etc.

Now adays, insurance companies don't look at what you were charged with, but with if u were convicted or not of an offence.. This all to do in part with the prosecutor pleading everything out to lesser or inappropriate charges.
 
In Toronto everytime I went to a first attendance, the first thing the JP (or whomever he/she is) did was push the record button right in front of me
GateKeeper said:
That first statement you make is not true, at least not in Mississauga, other municipalities might be different, but here they do not record it nor does it come up at trial of what you were offered before, it's a clean slate when you go to trial....
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ZX600 said:
In Toronto everytime I went to a first attendance, the first thing the JP (or whomever he/she is) did was push the record button right in front of me
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A representative of The Crown, not a JP. JP presides over the trial.
 
hedo2002 said:
For a charge as serious as 172. I personally wouldn't even bother with a paralegal, (they generally will be "happy" to take a deal to get you a speeding conviction). That will still negatively affect you going forward. Personally I would go with a lawyer, who will work to actually get you a not guilty decision.

Now let me educate you a bit. Firstly, you don't speak to the JP at a first appearance, (unless your pleading guilty outright). You speak to the crown. If you begin the convesation as you laid it out here.. I did it BUT...I haven't been in trouble before, I need my car, I have big student debt, etc etc etc. The crown is unlikely to offer any sort of real reduction. Why would they? You have already admitted you did it. Speaking to the officer, isn't likley to go well either. If she/he were going to cut you a break they would have done roadside.

It is also highly dependent where you were when you got tagged. Some forces/detachments, (if it was rural area it could have been OPP), have a zero tolerance policy for 172 charges meaning if your in that territory the supervisor expect the officer to lay the charge.

Throwing yourself to the "mercy of the court" (Lienency) is at best a crap shoot. There are just too many variables, (the cop/crown/JP) had a fight with their partner the night before and you pay for it. The JP/crown/cop wants to make an "example" of you. you get the idea.

You can not just look at the "costs" of the conviction, (impound fees, which you won't recover even if found not guilty), the fine, MTO points, suspension of your drivers licence. You have to consider the increased insurance costs for a considerable length of time. It is VERY possible your current insurer will drop you as soon as they see the conviction. Then you will have to go into the facility insurance market, where your rates will likely double if not triple. If you ride a bike you can forget about that as well as the insurance will be unaffordable for most.

A lawyer will cost you but not nearly as much as losing will.
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+1. Listen to this guy.

I have gone through the same thing.

GET A LAWYER! NOT paralegal. this is SERIOUS!!!

Im not gonna get into how unjust HTA172 is. ill paint you a picture of guilty vs. lawyer getting you free of the charge

Guilty equals:

license suspension. Insurance will drop you. You will have to pay $5-7K per year insurance at facility for 3-6 years.
You can and will most likely be hit with an added fine $2000-$10 0000 FINE upon being found guilty
Also automatic license suspension.
And for the rest of your life every time you get pulled over, or go to fight a ticket and lose, this will be on your record, will be weighed against you, and you will keep paying the price for the rest of your life.

Paralegals are not qualified to fight something of this magnitude. they lose a 20 over ticket not a big deal, but THIS is Huge, ruins your life.

You need a lawyer, and let me tell you, it is well worth spending the money to have a qualified individual fight for you. the Prosecutor will go after you hard, and will want to nail you. If i had a do over with my charge, i would happily have spend $10k on a lawyer, now mind you that doesn't mean how much it will cost you, just saying having the seen the aftermath i'd happily spend even that much to get a lawyer to fight a charge like this.

Good luck. i hope you win this.

and I hope this HTA172 BS law gets abolished.... then again Wynn is introducing a whole new can of worms where we won't even be able to fight our tickets anymore... hate Ontario.
 
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