Pulled over for Stunt (excessive speed), need advice! Please help. | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Pulled over for Stunt (excessive speed), need advice! Please help.

ZX600 Not sure how Bike cop and I are seen as giving conflicting advice I beleive we both recommended talking to a LAWYER. I advised that the OP trying to get a reduced charge is at best a crap shoot.

To those who are unaware, it is a CROWN that handles first attendance meetings NOT the JP. A JP is merely there to hear cases and make the ruling. in MOST areas the first attendance meetings are held in a seperate room, (not a courtroom). In these locations if you look you will see signs that advise that the room is monitored, (audio recordings). This is done, not to "use" any statements against the defendents, (To do so the crown would have to read you your charter rights and make you aware that your statements may be used against you), it is to "protect" the crown, (so a defendent can't say well the crown offered to drop the charge if I went on a date etc). Plus they have a permanent record if you say the crown said they were withdrawign the charge and they werent but a conviction is registered. Mistakes can happen

If the frist attendance occurs in the courtroom these are not recorded, because there are other people in the same room.

OP again I would advise to not try to "deal with this yourself" Get legal representation. Personally I wouldn't leave something as serious as this to a paralegal. You will have by now already paid the impound fees so you can see just how expensive this can become very quickly.
 
OP I'm going to share my experience with you, the very same experience you are having, afterwards you can give me a PM to speak further if you like.

- 2.5 years ago I get pulled over for doing 54kph over....let me correct that...I stopped up the road to wait for my friend and after I he caught up, as I was preparing to leave the OPP cut me off and charged me. He thanked me for not running but then nailed me to the cross. My friend came back to check on me and he was threatened to be charged with stunting because he was within 30 seconds of me and therefore could be charged with racing as the cop explained. He was a total hard *** and didn't accept any plea or excuse. He said "I'll sleep better knowing you're off the road" after I laid the same story you have laid out for us, insurance, not driving for 3 years etc etc. They impounded my bike...which by the way they dropped in impound!!!

- At the first hearing and up to that point I was crapping my pants, stressing, you name it, just like you. I was happy just to take a 49 over and be done with it. At the hearing the prosecutor was also a hard ***. I saw him squashing others who went before me. I approached him quietly at the recess and asked if he would be willing to lower the charge, to which he explained he would be willing to lower it to 49 over if I accepted guilt and ended it here at the first hearing, but that if I requested a trial he would go all in for the full stunting charge. I DID NOT ADMIT GUILT up until that point. I agreed to his terms and pleaded guilty when it was my turn up. The 49 over charge came with a $650 fine to which they granted me a 6 month period to pay, also something you need to request from the JP!

- So the dreaded moment of insurance renewal came and went with no letter from the insurance company and I got away with another year of riding up until the following renewal date...to which my insurer said they would not renew based on my now total of 3 tickets. I was with SF and they said they would have accepted 2 at most. They had also just been bought out by Dejardin so I suspect there was some cleaning house afoot.

- I cancelled my insurance before it had a chance to expire and quickly scrambled to get insured on ANYTHING else so I was not in a position to have been "dropped" or without insurance for any period! Both those situation will cause you to have your rates hiked by any new insurer. So technically while I still had insurance I had not "been dropped".

- After shopping around I found no one would touch my bike (Panigale 1199S) as it was black listed by most insurers and those who would insure it would not accept more than 1 ticket.

- So I went after the cheapest offer I could find....I figured since I would potentiall bewithout insurance I could be saving $2k per year and that was now my new budget to find new insurance / a new ride. I grabbed myself a 125 Sachs Madass and managed to get insurance with TD MM all for $2k!!! So I was back on "2"...and the Pani was put away for track days. Sounds depressing right? Not quite...

- So I rode the Madass around from February till late May when I came upon a BMWS1KRR owner remarking on how cheap the BMW was on insurance (around $1k) when it spurned me into action...a quick call with my insurer and low and behold they were now suddenly ok with insuring me on a 1000cc when 4 months prior they were not, at least not for the rate they were offering now.

- So in the end I got a rate of $1600 for the S1KRR and went out and got me an S1KRR!!! I have been riding that as my street bike for a year now and by August this year all my tickets come off my record and the Pani comes back on the street!

- My point is, this is a tight spot you are in and it requires serious planning and adaptability. You may get lucky as in some ways I certainly did, and unlucky as in other ways I certainly did. It's not a well worn path that everyone has the answers to.

- From my experience trial is a big risk. I was able to see the officers notes at my hearing right away and they were extensive and immaculate. I knew then and there a lawyer would have trouble with this case and I stood no chance. As others have stated some insurance companies consider 45kph+ a major while others consider 50kph+ a major. You may have luck bringing it down to a lower threshold but your chances of a 20kph+ or charges dropped are slim even with a lawyer. The hearing comes up fast, sometimes in less than 2 weeks and it forces you to make a quick judgement call on your finances. Get introductory free council from a lawyer first if you can, but if you are that strapped for money and time, a pathetic sorrowful request of the prosecutor at your hearing may be your best alternative and you live with the consequences of a 49kph over ticket for 3 years.

- I the end I managed to turn some lemons into lemonade and I really enjoyed putting that Madass around town. It was also stressful and humbling and will be a legacy issue in your life for the next 3 years no matter how this goes down. Personally I don't believe you need a lawyer to get you down to 49kph over if you can live with that. And you will get a sense if that is even on the table at your hearing. If not, and they want to nail you to the cross, then ask for a trial and lawyer up!

To summarize:

1. If you have the money lawyer up, if not...
2. Go to hearing alone, be polite and respectful in your attire. Go early and approach the prosecutor politely and gently ask if there is a chance they would consider a lesser charge. If you are met with firm resistance, prepare for the worst case and go for a trial and then lawyer up....at this point your are SOL. You can also ask for disclosure first to see how F'ed you really are. You will need it either way, especially for the trial and lawyer if you have to go that route.
3. If they agree to 49kph over, you may choose to accept or push your luck for a 44kph over. That's your call.
4. Listen to your charges read aloud when you're up and when you hear the reduced charge, then and only then admit guilt (if you are ok to accept the new charge), otherwise state that you have spoken with the prosecutor and have come to an agreement, and then let them state the new charge.
5. Kindly request the maximum term to pay due to your financial situation. There is a high likelihood they will give you the 6 month max payment term. Expect your charge to be $500 to $1000.
6. Wait for your insurance renewal and be prepared to shop around for insurance on more affordable options, ie smaller bikes. Be prepared so you are not left without insurance or formally dropped. Then do that again the following year!
7. Get ready to think out of the box, as in find a girlfriend who will insure a car for you if you really need to get around town on a private vehicle!!!!
 
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OP I'm going to share my experience with you, the very same experience you are having, afterwards you can give me a PM to speak further if you like.

- 2.5 years ago I get pulled over for doing 54kph over....let me correct that...I stopped up the road to wait for my friend and after I he caught up, as I was preparing to leave the OPP cut me off and charged me. He thanked me for not running but then nailed me to the cross. My friend came back to check on me and he was threatened to be charged with stunting because he was within 30 seconds of me and therefore could be charged with racing as the cop explained. He was a total hard *** and didn't accept any plea or excuse. He said "I'll sleep better knowing you're off the road" after I laid the same story you have laid out for us, insurance, not driving for 3 years etc etc. They impounded my bike...which by the way they dropped in impound!!!

- At the first hearing and up to that point I was crapping my pants, stressing, you name it, just like you. I was happy just to take a 49 over and be done with it. At the hearing the prosecutor was also a hard ***. I saw him squashing others who went before me. I approached him quietly at the recess and asked if he would be willing to lower the charge, to which he explained he would be willing to lower it to 49 over if I accepted guilt and ended it here at the first hearing, but that if I requested a trial he would go all in for the full stunting charge. I DID NOT ADMIT GUILT up until that point. I agreed to his terms and pleaded guilty when it was my turn up. The 49 over charge came with a $650 fine to which they granted me a 6 month period to pay, also something you need to request from the JP!

- So the dreaded moment of insurance renewal came and went with no letter from the insurance company and I got away with another year of riding up until the following renewal date...to which my insurer said they would not renew based on my now total of 3 tickets. I was with SF and they said they would have accepted 2 at most. They had also just been bought out by Dejardin so I suspect there was some cleaning house afoot.

- I cancelled my insurance before it had a chance to expire and quickly scrambled to get insured on ANYTHING else so I was not in a position to have been "dropped" or without insurance for any period! Both those situation will cause you to have your rates hiked by any new insurer. So technically while I still had insurance I had not "been dropped".

- After shopping around I found no one would touch my bike (Panigale 1199S) as it was black listed by most insurers and those who would insure it would not accept more than 1 ticket.

- So I went after the cheapest offer I could find....I figured since I would potentiall bewithout insurance I could be saving $2k per year and that was now my new budget to find new insurance / a new ride. I grabbed myself a 125 Sachs Madass and managed to get insurance with TD MM all for $2k!!! So I was back on "2"...and the Pani was put away for track days. Sounds depressing right? Not quite...

- So I rode the Madass around from February till late May when I came upon a BMWS1KRR owner remarking on how cheap the BMW was on insurance (around $1k) when it spurned me into action...a quick call with my insurer and low and behold they were now suddenly ok with insuring me on a 1000cc when 4 months prior they were not, at least not for the rate they were offering now.

- So in the end I got a rate of $1600 for the S1KRR and went out and got me an S1KRR!!! I have been riding that as my street bike for a year now and by August this year all my tickets come off my record and the Pani comes back on the street!

- My point is, this is a tight spot you are in and it requires serious planning and adaptability. You may get lucky as in some ways I certainly did, and unlucky as in other ways I certainly did. It's not a well worn path that everyone has the answers to.

- From my experience trial is a big risk. I was able to see the officers notes at my hearing right away and they were extensive and immaculate. I knew then and there a lawyer would have trouble with this case and I stood no chance. As others have stated some insurance companies consider 45kph+ a major while others consider 50kph+ a major. You may have luck bringing it down to a lower threshold but your chances of a 20kph+ or charges dropped are slim even with a lawyer. The hearing comes up fast, sometimes in less than 2 weeks and it forces you to make a quick judgement call on your finances. Get introductory free council from a lawyer first if you can, but if you are that strapped for money and time, a pathetic sorrowful request of the prosecutor at your hearing may be your best alternative and you live with the consequences of a 49kph over ticket for 3 years.

- I the end I managed to turn some lemons into lemonade and I really enjoyed putting that Madass around town. It was also stressful and humbling and will be a legacy issue in your life for the next 3 years no matter how this goes down. Personally I don't believe you need a lawyer to get you down to 49kph over if you can live with that. And you will get a sense if that is even on the table at your hearing. If not, and they want to nail you to the cross, then ask for a trial and lawyer up!

To summarize:

1. If you have the money lawyer up, if not...
2. Go to hearing alone, be polite and respectful in your attire. Go early and approach the prosecutor politely and gently ask if there is a chance they would consider a lesser charge. If you are met with firm resistance, prepare for the worst case and go for a trial and then lawyer up....at this point your are SOL. You can also ask for disclosure first to see how F'ed you really are. You will need it either way, especially for the trial and lawyer if you have to go that route.
3. If they agree to 49kph over, you may choose to accept or push your luck for a 44kph over. That's your call.
4. Listen to your charges read aloud when you're up and when you hear the reduced charge, then and only then admit guilt (if you are ok to accept the new charge), otherwise state that you have spoken with the prosecutor and have come to an agreement, and then let them state the new charge.
5. Kindly request the maximum term to pay due to your financial situation. There is a high likelihood they will give you the 6 month max payment term. Expect your charge to be $500 to $1000.
6. Wait for your insurance renewal and be prepared to shop around for insurance on more affordable options, ie smaller bikes. Be prepared so you are not left without insurance or formally dropped. Then do that again the following year!
7. Get ready to think out of the box, as in find a girlfriend who will insure a car for you if you really need to get around town on a private vehicle!!!!

All solid advice, until you got to #7. Even if he has a live in, (they must reside at the same address, and vehicle MUST be in her name), girlfriend who is willing to do this, she has to list him as a a licenced household driver. The rates will be based upon his risk to the insurer, so no savings. Or she can list him using an exclusion, (but then he can never drive the vehicle). If she insures the vehicle without disclosing he is an operator and he gets in an accident the insurer will likley deny the claim and she will lose her insurance as well because that is insurance fraud, and good luck on either of them finding affordable insurance.
 
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All solid advice, until you got to #7. Even if he has a live in, (they must reside at the same address, and vehicle MUST be in her name), girlfriend who is willing to do this, she has to list him as a a licenced household driver. The rates will be based upon his risk to the insurer, so no savings. Or she can list him using an exclusion, (but then he can never drive the vehicle). If she insures the vehicle without disclosing he is an operator and he gets in an accident the insurer will likley deny the claim and she will lose her insurance as well because that is insurance fraud, and good luck on either of them finding affordable insurance.

Indeed. The thing about insurance fraud, is there is no valid contract. Better not have any trouble.

I've said it before, in similar cases, and many have said it here; get a lawyer. An experienced traffic lawyer.
 
Indeed. The thing about insurance fraud, is there is no valid contract. Better not have any trouble.

I've said it before, in similar cases, and many have said it here; get a lawyer. An experienced traffic lawyer.

+1 Not all lawyers are created equal..lol Find someone who has had some success dealing with 172 cases not someone who normally only does criminal cases etc.
 
All solid advice, until you got to #7. Even if he has a live in, (they must reside at the same address, and vehicle MUST be in her name), girlfriend who is willing to do this, she has to list him as a a licenced household driver. The rates will be based upon his risk to the insurer, so no savings. Or she can list him using an exclusion, (but then he can never drive the vehicle). If she insures the vehicle without disclosing he is an operator and he gets in an accident the insurer will likley deny the claim and she will lose her insurance as well because that is insurance fraud, and good luck on either of them finding affordable insurance.

well said. Don't do this as obviously it'll be hard for you to get insurance period.
 

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