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EBR gone again
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
vociferous
Well-known member
He'll come back. He always does.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
EBR sales were what killed them.
Nobody wanted to take a risk on a bike that is that expensive from such a small company.
What would you have done? Spent just under $18K on the 1190RX or $19.5K on a base Panigale 1199?
Feel bad for Niccolo Cannepa - I'm sure he could have picked up another WSBK ride if he hadn't signed with EBR.
Nobody wanted to take a risk on a bike that is that expensive from such a small company.
What would you have done? Spent just under $18K on the 1190RX or $19.5K on a base Panigale 1199?
Feel bad for Niccolo Cannepa - I'm sure he could have picked up another WSBK ride if he hadn't signed with EBR.
Especially since the quality reputation of Harley Buell was awful, and two of the EBR media tests reported blowing oil and major issues during the testing. Fit and finish was no where near the competition.
The US motorcycle journalists have done their best to pump up Eric Buell, because they really want a US sportbike maker, but they felt betrayed for what he started selling when he was cut off from Harley.
Harley employs serious businessmen, they make money, they retain a >50% market share in the US, and all they ever got from Eric Buell was liabilities from poor design and erratic behaviour. Example: designing and selling the Blast, then insulting customers by posting videos of crushing unsold bikes. At one point, every Buell made had a recall for frame failures. Harley had enough of this "genius". Harley fired Buell for very good reasons.
His designs were just different to try and a distinguish the company, but most of the this innovation was not better, and in some cases, really bad ideas.
Eric Buell is damaged goods, he won't be back. Both at Harley and Hero he never ran the business, others did that, but they could not sell what he produced. This was especially true at the range that EBR trying target, which has very tough, outstanding, competition from Japan, England Germany and Italy. I'm sure Hero cut him off for good reasons.
Eric Buell is no John Bloor. American business needs to get way from the models of bullsh-t hype of their CEOs and start actually making better products, because the buying public in performance bikes sees through bullsh-t quickly.
Oh man that just made me laugh, Harley worried about someone tarnishing their name because of POOR DESIGN?
Harley makes bikes good for what they do, and they are reasonably reliable and safe. You want to cruise or highway tour on straight US roads, they are fine, which is why they sell so well despite the costs. Plus Harley sells image and culture more than actual bikes, that doesn't work in performance bikes.
It has nothing to do with the name, it has to do with legal liabilities. This is #1 concern in doing business in the US.
This may all be true but on a personal level, if measuring grit and determination and can do spirit he'd put the vast majority of people to shame. He ran with what opportunities he had. Everything's a compromise. He never thought the Sportster was a good fit for a sport bike but talked it up like the holy grail because American style hype. I have an old Buell but am not a Buell fan boy. That stupid Sportster engine should have had the unbalance engineered out of it decades ago. In fact that was on the table early 2000's but instead HD chose rubber mount because market demanded "HD feel". Again, I admire his drive(am jealous?) if not all his decisions.
SO you are saying they "make bikes good" *Make good bikes*
but then you say "Harley sells image and culture more than actual bikes"
Hence the result is a bunch of unreliable bikes but yet Buell was a liability?
Ummhummm!
Anyways, I wonder what is going to happen to the "one side only caliper design" supposedly it was giving great results in braking stability on corner entry.
but then you say "Harley sells image and culture more than actual bikes"
Hence the result is a bunch of unreliable bikes but yet Buell was a liability?
Ummhummm!
Anyways, I wonder what is going to happen to the "one side only caliper design" supposedly it was giving great results in braking stability on corner entry.
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I heard it passes to much heat to the rim ergo tire under demanding conditions. Anyone? Bueller?
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
BLAH BLAH BLAH...
We all know how much you hate Buell/EBR on a personal level for some absurd reason.
Erik Buell did the best he could with the pittance of resources that HD let him have access to.
Were there failures on the way? Absolutely.
Did he come up with some genius designs and forward thinking engineering? Absolutely.
I feel for the employees who are once again out of jobs, and simply due to that reason I really wish EBR would have had success.
After the tubers the chassis design went even more extreme with short wheelbase, rake/trail etc. still using rubber mounted Sportster based engine. That was a make or break decision for the Buell company. You've got a bike style no typical HD rider wants and an engine no typical sport bike rider wants. As a consequence sales are low. It didn't have to be that way.
Erik Buell is no dummy and can take his millions of dollars and go home. Or take another run at building yet another orphan. Sadly the economy of scale in manufacturing means you need to make "X" to yield "Y". And every time he gets in bed with a large production partner the boat turns over. He's no Britten or John Bloor and he may be back in some capacity but I hope he's smelled the proverbial coffee and woke up.
DownUnder
Well-known member
His whole operation felt like OCC to me. "Hey guys, ill randomly weld a piece here and one over here, bend this one and there we go a frame".... Why people praise his engineering and innovation abilities is beyond me. That ridiculous disc/caliper idea was just a "lets do something different and hope it works"... well it didnt and they stuck with it for waaaay too long. Every part of their bikes was shotty unrefined crap.
Hey don't forget the muffler down under. Massive contribution to happy motorcyling
Look. I love my Buell. It's a knarly machine.
I wouldn't have bought one new front the show room. Crazy expensive and the resale even before HD cut Buell loose was terrible.
It would be great if there was a North American produced sport bike.
Might happen before before the leafs with another cup? Not hold my breath for either one.
I wouldn't have bought one new front the show room. Crazy expensive and the resale even before HD cut Buell loose was terrible.
It would be great if there was a North American produced sport bike.
Might happen before before the leafs with another cup? Not hold my breath for either one.
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Ummmm...
You really need to do some research before spewing off nonsense.
Harley offered those engines to them, and none other. EB made drastic revisions to the sportster motor to make it rev smoother and have a better rpm range, which are still being utilized by HD to this day.
When EB finally told them they needed something more, they approached Porsche to design a motor for a sport bike. Porsche happily obliged. EB was a happy camper. Until HD said, "hey, we want a liquid cooled cruiser... we want the Porsche motor. But, it looks like crap and won't fit HD bike lines at all, so we need to pork it up." Add 70 pounds of dead weight metal. The V-Rod was born.
EB told HD to take the motor away, as it is no longer suitable for a sport bike 'cause it is way too heavy.
EB wanted to use proper sport bike fairings. HD said no-way. There is zero possibility of selling Buell branded bikes with full fairings next to our classic HD cruisers. So take your fairings and stuff it.
EB approached Rotax to make a motor for their new design, the 1125r/cr. Rotax and everyone was a happy camper. Couple teething issues as can be expected. HD stepped in after a year... We want you to increase the stator voltage so people can plug in their coffee mug heaters, heated this and that and a fridge... But, no, you don't get any money to re-do the oil jetting on the internals to keep the stator cool. Hence the stator burnouts on the 2009+ models.
So again, EB made due with the cards he was dealt by HD. Unfortunately it didn't work out in the end.
Sure, it sounds like I'm an EB/EBR fanboy, and I owned a 1125r as well, but it gave me issues like most of the rest of the world. Was the product great? No. Was it immensely fun to ride? Complete yes.
EB had forward thinking that most of the world wasn't ready to accept. Even WSBK riders were surprised that the single front perimeter brake disc system works as well as it does.
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