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Tire contingency?
- Thread starter YellowDuck
- Start date
N3WMAN
Well-known member
How's that?
Rookie win = $100
Pro Superbike 3rd = $100
That's how. It's always been like that and it baffles me (even when I was a noob)
I wonder if it's a case of whichever company posts contingency first is setting the bar. If all things were equal then contingency payout would potentially encourage people to use whichever manufacturer posts the highest. Obviously all things aren't equal, so paying a higher contingency to beat the competition may not make sense.
I can't see the Nuspeed staying that way. Heck last year they only paid $150 for 1st in CSBK CBR250 and they MADE you buy a full set every weekend.
ATTS
Well-known member
I know bridgestone was better payout than Dunlops last year in SOAR (not sure of every class) but they also cost more.
N3WMAN
Well-known member
I agree that Pro classes should get more than they do, even CSBK is much lower than I would have expected, but you aren't going to attract many new racers with no rookie contingency. Its already the lowest payout in the whole series.
As far as Nuspeed goes they've never actually gotten 8 starters so I doubt anyone will be collecting on that.
The tire people only have so much money to spread around. Every dollar that goes into non-premier classes (formula femme, rookie, bott, etc) is a a dollar that could have gone into the premier classes (Pro 600/SBK and even AM 600/SBK).
Rookie is a class in which you can win races with $100 sets of take offs then use those tires for practice/quali the next weekend. Rookie tire budgets should not exceed $200/wknd.
Do you want to compare tire budgets and talk about what is sustainable and what will grow pro grids??
Front running AMs can win significant tire money. Pros that are faster than those front running AMs win SFA.
IMO, all lost era, bott, rookie, femme and nuspeed contingency should be eliminated. AM 600/SBK contingency should be halved. Then all that $ should be put into Pro 600/SBK contingency. FWIW this is what I've been saying for years, long before I went Pro myself.
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Even though it is against my own interests, it is hard to argue with Tim on this one. In BOTT LW I am reasonably competitive and can get maybe three weekends out of one set of tires. So, like $150 / weekend tire budget. Sure it's nice to win some tire money, but it just isn't a big expense compared to what the superbike guys have to shell out.
ATTS
Well-known member
Unless grids get bigger, not that many classes will even qualify for the 8 rider lineup from Dunlop. The following classes would have qualified for contingency in less than half the rounds. SB Expert (if they don't count provisionals), same with 600 expert, open sprint expert, open sprint novice, FF, LE Ltwt, LE Hwt, BOTT ltwt, BOTT hwt, Bridgestone cup, Nu speed, 2 stroke, vintage and no endurance classes.
Old boys was about half the time and rookie was every round but 1.
I understand that certain classes burn through more tires but at least someone is getting paybacks with it being spread out.
Old boys was about half the time and rookie was every round but 1.
I understand that certain classes burn through more tires but at least someone is getting paybacks with it being spread out.
Someone decides that
Well let me start by saying this first. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO PAYS WHAT.
Ok I was never happy when companies started paying AM at all. but I am afraid that ship has sailed. There was once an argument to say that paying the pros adds a return in advertising (So and So wins Pro SBK on brand whatever) Now nobody cares other than maybe the guys racing. A tire vendor once told me that its decided on number of sets sold. So if Rookie or OBC or whatever buys more, they get paid because the brand is trying to entice the rest of the field into buying said brand. Is that right? Maybe not. But seriously doubt it will change anytime soon. I feel for the pros myself thats why I pay $1200 per round EVERY round for purse. It isnt much but sometimes its more than I make from the classes even at that I get riders and bump ups that sit the finals out? So that tells me that prize money and contingency doesnt change anything regarding entries and/or purchasing tires. So tire vendor was right pay who buys tires I guess. Keep in mind nobody has to pay anything they do it in a decided marketing strategy. If they dont see a return they dont pay. The tire companies have no concern regarding whats fair and whats not. Its marketing pure and simple. You and I could argue that if they paid the pros bigger dough they would get bigger punch for the dough but they see it otherwise and its their money. I as an organizer am just happy that some money gets through at all.
Ok I was never happy when companies started paying AM at all. but I am afraid that ship has sailed. There was once an argument to say that paying the pros adds a return in advertising (So and So wins Pro SBK on brand whatever) Now nobody cares other than maybe the guys racing. A tire vendor once told me that its decided on number of sets sold. So if Rookie or OBC or whatever buys more, they get paid because the brand is trying to entice the rest of the field into buying said brand. Is that right? Maybe not. But seriously doubt it will change anytime soon. I feel for the pros myself thats why I pay $1200 per round EVERY round for purse. It isnt much but sometimes its more than I make from the classes even at that I get riders and bump ups that sit the finals out? So that tells me that prize money and contingency doesnt change anything regarding entries and/or purchasing tires. So tire vendor was right pay who buys tires I guess. Keep in mind nobody has to pay anything they do it in a decided marketing strategy. If they dont see a return they dont pay. The tire companies have no concern regarding whats fair and whats not. Its marketing pure and simple. You and I could argue that if they paid the pros bigger dough they would get bigger punch for the dough but they see it otherwise and its their money. I as an organizer am just happy that some money gets through at all.
If the concept is more money for classes that buy the most tires then I guess Jacob, Renshaw and Tyler Waugh (only 3 Nuspeed racers) bought a crap load of tires from Dunlop last year then.
My point in this thread is the lack of thought on the money distribution, it just seems whomever did it just really does not give a crap about the racers and is just ticking a check mark on the to do list because Dunlop told them to.
If I am wrong and there is a logical reason for the way in which they did things, then I will take my comments back.
I only made contingency in one round last year and even forgot to put the form through so realistically does not affect me personally a whole lot but undermining all the effort you (ken) and others are putting into reviving the sport, this lack of what I call "giving a shittiness" (Trademark) is aggravating.
Add to that the run around some racers are getting to get their money back and Dunlop is dropping the ball (or tire)
My point in this thread is the lack of thought on the money distribution, it just seems whomever did it just really does not give a crap about the racers and is just ticking a check mark on the to do list because Dunlop told them to.
If I am wrong and there is a logical reason for the way in which they did things, then I will take my comments back.
I only made contingency in one round last year and even forgot to put the form through so realistically does not affect me personally a whole lot but undermining all the effort you (ken) and others are putting into reviving the sport, this lack of what I call "giving a shittiness" (Trademark) is aggravating.
Add to that the run around some racers are getting to get their money back and Dunlop is dropping the ball (or tire)
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There's also an ongoing phenomenon in Regionals and Nationals where racers will avoid moving up to the next class because their costs will go up. Some Amateurs will try to play their cards right so they get their one good Amateur year and if something happens early in the season to threaten their chance at a championship they will sit out the remainder of the year and try again the following year. Or they get their one good year and win a few races and maybe win a championship then they retire.
Why?
Because there's no incentive to go Pro.
Winning an AM Superbike race at a National got me $1450 in price and contingency. Tim Robinson finished 9th in Pro Superbike, ran faster lap times than I did, and got $100 in prize money.
Sigh....... I understand that the AMs are a necessity to bring in entry fees but it's still rather frustrating.
Why?
Because there's no incentive to go Pro.
Winning an AM Superbike race at a National got me $1450 in price and contingency. Tim Robinson finished 9th in Pro Superbike, ran faster lap times than I did, and got $100 in prize money.
Sigh....... I understand that the AMs are a necessity to bring in entry fees but it's still rather frustrating.
Still no contingency announcement from Bridgestone, but I found out from Dave that the prices are going up this year, due to the CDN$ being down. $439 per set for either V01-Rs or rains. That compares to $350 per set for Dunlop slicks, $399 for Dunlop rains (2015 pricing from Pro 6 website).
Kinda on the fence here...liked the Bridgestones last year, and I also like that Ripp Racing sponsors a SOAR class...but then again contingency is support too and B'stone has announced squat, as of mid April.
Any comments on durability of the B'stone slicks vs the Dunlops? I got the impression last year that the V01-Rs lasted longer than the KRs, but that's not based on much.
Kinda on the fence here...liked the Bridgestones last year, and I also like that Ripp Racing sponsors a SOAR class...but then again contingency is support too and B'stone has announced squat, as of mid April.
Any comments on durability of the B'stone slicks vs the Dunlops? I got the impression last year that the V01-Rs lasted longer than the KRs, but that's not based on much.
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