Fleeing the scene - When to report it? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Fleeing the scene - When to report it?

TheSaint

New member
I was travelling southbound along a major road this past Saturday afternoon. First ride of the season with a brand new helmet. Due to a lane restriction, traffic northbound was backed up for about 3 blocks.

Suddenly, a Ford F-150 pickup truck made a left turn from a small side street in front of me so as to also go southbound. He did not bother to inch forward slowly across the other lane of cars to check southbound traffic. He just went. I has to make a split-second maneuver to avoid hitting him by applying the brakes hard. The bike started skidding and leaning left. I let it go, cleared myself and rolled a couple of times on the pavement. The truck guy slowed down some 50 meters ahead. People got out of their vehicles to come and help me. The guy saw the people screaming at him, and took off. I got up and took notice of the car. It was distinctive black Ford with the Harley Davidson model decals. Tried to make a quick mental note of the license plates, saw that it was a custom plate and memorized part of it. People were really helpful and offered to call 911. I declined, since I had been able to get up, found no hanging parts on me, other than some pain on my hands and knees. I was shaken, but not stirred. Besides, the bastard has fled. Checked the bike, people helped my straighten it, started it, then went home. I lived only about 3 blocks away. My bike is a cruiser, and I was doing only about 40Kmph at the time.

Once home, got cleaned up and went out with my wife to meet a friend of hers for dinner. My wife noticed the scrapes on the helmet and I explained to her what had happened.

On the way home in the evening, she suggested that we drive around the small streets near the accident to see if we could find this truck that had fled. After about 15 minutes, we noticed a truck parked in the parking lot of a building on a small side street. Upon inspection, we confirmed that it was the truck. I took a number of pictures, went home, and typed up a note on the computer, which we then returned to put on the truck’s windshield. My note explained what had happened earlier that day and I requested that this driver contact me to pay me for a replacement helmet, pay for the damages to my bike, and pay for a new pair of boots, which had scrapped the pavement and almost wore through. I figured that I would be decent and not file an insurance claim or a police complaint against him if he would just pay my damages.

This afternoon (just over 24 hours later) I got a couple of phone calls from an unknown number. I let them go to voice mail. The first message said “… you left a note on my vehicle, alright? I need to talk to you about trespassing and about walking up to people’s property when you are not supposed to walk up to people’s property” and asked me to call him back and left a phone number. The second call came some 5 minutes later and the same guy said he wanted to talk to me and said my full name, spelled it out, then stated my date of birth and asked me to call him. He did not identify himself on either of these calls. BTW, that was not a type. He stated “on my vehicle”. Also, on my note, I had only left my first name and cell phone number, which is unlisted. These calls cause me to panic, wondering who this guy was, and seemed be a threat.

I decided to go to the police. The idiot that came to help me said “oh, so you are the guy with the note” after I explained the situation. I told him that I would like to file a report for a driver that is involved in an accident and flees the scene. He then said that he was the one that left the voice messages on my phone, because supposedly the other driver had been there at the station to file a report. This idiot then went on defending the other driver and saying that there had been no contact, so there was no real accident. He said that I had to have called the police right there and then, because I have no way of proving that this accident happened at all. I told him I had a witness. He did not care. He said that if I had not called the police right away, then it must have been that I was hiding something. Then he questioned how I had gotten pictures of this vehicle and that I must have followed this person all day until he got home so as to know where he lives. I showed him the pictures taken in the evening. I could not have possibly followed this guy, because he fled and I was left behind trying to pick up my bike. This the idiot told me in no uncertain terms that he was going to give ma a warning and he would give it to me once only, that I was to stop harassing these people immediately.

I was in complete disbelief. Not accepting this idiot’s threats, I went to another police station and explained the situation. The policeman there called a supervisor and was told that a police report against someone that flees the scene can be filed with no problem at least 3 or 4 days later. He asked if an incident report had already been filed. I told him that I did not know, and he asked for my driver’s license and check the police computer. Nothing had been filed. He asked if I wanted to file a report. I told him I did not want the accident report to be sent to my insurance company. That would be like adding salt to the wound if it were to trigger a rate increase on top of what I had already been through. I told him that I would return after speaking to my insurance agent. I have a perfect driving record and have been driving for over 30 years. I do not want to ruin it now.

There are several lessons that I have learned so far. 1) boots save your skin – wear them, 2) good leather gloves save your skin, 3) a good leather jacket saves your skin, a good (full face) helmet saves your skin and your head, 4) get as many witnesses as you can if you ever get involved in an accident, 5) don’t always believe what a policeman tells you – they lie.

If you have read this far, thank you. What do you think of this situation? Was that first cop dishonest? I can’t get my head over how he came out in full force accusing and threating me, while going out of his way to make various excuses for the other driver. How did this cop get my full name and DOB? Could it be that the guy in the truck was this cop or a buddy? What about his claim that since I did not make contact with the other vehicle, then the other guy did nothing wrong? Does anyone know if my insurance company will in fact be contacted and my rates affected if I file a police report?
 
I am not sure of any of the details or legalities, but I just want to say that I am glad that you are okay. At the end of the day that is what really matters.
Good luck with whatever path you decide to go.
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From the amount of work that this police officer did (they used your name and telephone number in the data system to start the process) it would appear to me that if he is not the driver of the truck himself, then he is either good friends with the driver or a friend of the driver who is good friends with this officer has asked for a favour (to make you go away). A few year ago a car driver hit my motorcycle from rear as I was stopped at a stop sign and drove away. I went to the nearest station to file a report. I provided the investigating officer with incident information and what I thought was the vehicle plate information; he came back 5 minutes later told me that I didn't have the correct plate information, gave me a copy of the incident report and walked away. I had mild whiplash; that was the end of his investigation.

If you have the information for a witness now is the time to use it; contact them to see if they will help you in filing a report which you will then be able to use to move the situation along with the police if you wish and also to prevent your insurance company from entering a claim against you in the system. For insurance companies all they care is that an incident occurred and are you at fault; if you are at fault, they don't care if you make an insurance claim or not on their record an at fault incident will be entered.
 
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The no contact point may be the deciding factor. If you have an independent witness that the truck ran you off, then maybe, but without physical evidence(contact) it might be a he said/he said issue. I'd at least make a police report and give the witness info and let them do their job.
 
I've had policemen try to tell me that I've run imaginary stop signs in my neighbourhood and called them out on it. So I know 100% they lie and am not surprised. Good thing you went to another station.

glad your ok, dont know about the insurance part but the other driver is 100% at fault, you were on the major street heading straight and he pulled into your lane causing the crash.

But next time call the cops while you have witnesses there beside you, so much easier to prove things.
 
This has been discussed many times on the forums, if a car driving recklessly/violating HTA caused you to crash without contact, are they held liable? People have told stories about police charging the other party with careless driving and what not.

I certainly believe that physical contact isn't the only deciding factor, say you were on a highway and you had to ride into a ditch to avoid being run over by an 18 wheeler that suddenly decided to cut into your lane while you are at his blind spot, he would be held liable.

Contact your witness(es) and get them to help you file a police report and explain the whole situation including the first officer telling you that you are at fault, also contact your insurance and inform them of the whole situation. With insurance it could get a little tricky, because these types of accident are hard to determine fault, I would try calling anonymously first and ask them what would happen in a situation like this.
 
The fact that there was no contact is a possible issue, but I say go forward with it. Based on the response from the first officer I would tend to think that he's either one of the people who thinks that riders are always responsible for what happens to them, or he is actually acquainted with the driver of the truck.

At the roadside my advice would have been to make a report IMMEDIATELY. Now things are somewhat muddied.
 
From the amount of work that this police officer did (they used your name and telephone number in the data system to start the process) it would appear to me that if he is not the driver of the truck himself, then he is either good friends with the driver or a friend of the driver who is good friends with this officer has asked for a favour (to make you go away).

Exactly what i thought
 
I agree with Rob's assessment. The no contact portion of this makes it difficult without independent witnesses. The driver of the truck will claim he didn't see you, he will then likely say he slowed down up the road as he had seen the a bike had gone down but he had no idea why the rider had gone down. May "claim" he thought it was just a harley rider practicing his sliding abilities, by laying the bike down for no reason..lol.

If it does get reported to insurance they "may" declare it as a single vehicle accident, due to the no contact, which would then place you at 100% fault. Is that fair? Not at all but they are insurance, and the same rules of common sense do not apply.

Given the circumstances as you have described them, (the part about your trespassing to place the note etc), I doubt the cop was the actual driver, but it is HIGHLY likely there exists some form of relationship.

I would contact the witness and ask them to provide you with a FULL accounting of the incident in WRITING, personal handwritten is best but in a pinch an email would suffice. You want this in the event they later get cold feet and don't wish to be involved.

Depending upon how far you want to pursue things you could also contact the professional standards branch of the officers force and ask them to investigate as to why you had reported an accident to an officer and he failed to file a report as is required under the police services act. The professional services branch will be able to determine the relationship etc. This could lead to serious ramifications for his career if it is determined he didn't file the report as it was his vehicle and he was the driver etc.

He obviously has all your details, (address, vehicle info etc), so once he is called in for it he will immediately know who the reporting party was, (if he is this type of officer it "could" lead to repercussions, as it sounds like he isn't all that bright) IE traffic stops, etc.

Glad your ok. Be smart. be safe
 
Your incident occurred on Metropolitan Police Services patrolled road, but you may want to go to the OPP Detachment at Highway 401 and Keele St. and speak with them and ask for assistance with this matter. Going forward with the investigation can lead to varying problems for you depending on the relationship of the Metro Police Officer and the driver of the pick-up. Dealing with a different detachment is better then dealing with the detachment at which that particular Officer is assigned and dealing with a different police service may be even better; if they are legally able to help. The"Blue Line" does have cracks int it.

I don't know how the relationship is between Metro and OPP but between York Region and OPP it can get strained. A few years ago (I believe 2 now) a York Regional Police cruiser was impounded (by OPP) for 1 week under HTA 172. Many years ago HWY #7 was a provincial road while now it it a regional road. One day I was driving along HWY #7 and was passed by 2 York Regional cruisers "drag racing"; there was an OPP officer parked in a strip plaza who saw these two, pulled out with the service lights and siren on, pulling them over. As I passed the scene, OPP officer was out of vehicle yelling at the two York Regional Officers. Don't know if they were disciplined as the more recent example.
 
OPP have no jurisdiction on a City of Toronto, (Keele St roadway). They would simply refer the OP back to TPS for his accident report, (which he has already filed at the second Division, he visited with the supervisor).

Your incident occurred on Metropolitan Police Services patrolled road, but you may want to go to the OPP Detachment at Highway 401 and Keele St. and speak with them and ask for assistance with this matter. Going forward with the investigation can lead to varying problems for you depending on the relationship of the Metro Police Officer and the driver of the pick-up. Dealing with a different detachment is better then dealing with the detachment at which that particular Officer is assigned and dealing with a different police service may be even better; if they are legally able to help. The"Blue Line" does have cracks int it.

I don't know how the relationship is between Metro and OPP but between York Region and OPP it can get strained. A few years ago (I believe 2 now) a York Regional Police cruiser was impounded (by OPP) for 1 week under HTA 172. Many years ago HWY #7 was a provincial road while now it it a regional road. One day I was driving along HWY #7 and was passed by 2 York Regional cruisers "drag racing"; there was an OPP officer parked in a strip plaza who saw these two, pulled out with the service lights and siren on, pulling them over. As I passed the scene, OPP officer was out of vehicle yelling at the two York Regional Officers. Don't know if they were disciplined as the more recent example.
 
First, we are all glad to hear that you appear to be alright physically....

A friend of mine, a former RCMP officer who just recently retired, had this to say: When in doubt, go to the next one down the line. If you walk into a Police Station anywhere and you don't feel as though you are being addressed fairly, it is your right to simply ask for their badge number and name, then leave and go to another station.

If they refuse, smile; make a note of the time and date of your encounter and go somewhere else. Or if this isn't an option, ask for the desk sergeant who is on or use your cell and call up ANY other location and explain to them what happened. All calls are logged these days and even though you may not hear about it personally, the incident is tagged for further investigation internally. Without all of the details, it does suggest that there was breach of your privacy and that the individual may well have been 'known to Police..." as well.

Access to Information: contact the provincial office and get a copy of the official report. Some information will have been redacted (privacy leg) but the key details--name, date, time, incident, their comments--will be on the report. If not there, then in the personal handwritten notes of the officer(s) themselves.

Once you have this information, you can decide how you want to proceed. Or at the very least, you will have some peace of mind that the incident was reported, and if it was but not accurately, then you can pursue the avenues to have it amended.

This should help if you want to pursue some kind of damage claim later on.

You will find all types in all professions-- use your 'spider sense' to know when to continue or when to abort and find someone else.


Again, glad to hear that you are okay.:p

V

P.S. And I won't even get in to those who have 'Lifestyle Envy.... ;)
 
As an additional note save those voicemails, if you haven't already deleted them. When someone knows that he's being recorded, there's no inherent right to privacy with respect to them. If the officer claimed that he made the phone calls, then that's one thing. If one of the phone calls said, "You left a note on my truck...." and the officer gave your information to a third party, he's potentially in some deep excrement.
 
OPP have no jurisdiction on a City of Toronto, (Keele St roadway). They would simply refer the OP back to TPS for his accident report, (which he has already filed at the second Division, he visited with the supervisor).

Jurisdictional boundaries are murky in Canada. About 4 years ago I "disobeyed a traffic sign" to get myself out of a potential dangerous traffic situation in York Region just at the border with Peel Region. A Peel Region Constable stopped me as I entered Peel Region and ticketed me. I contacted my lawyer at which point they informed me that the officer's action was legal. I don't think it would hurt for the individual to have a chat with OPP and to get their opinion on the incident.
 
Always make a report immediately. If you're not at fault there's no way this should affect your premium
 
Yes in that situation the peel officer observed the offence and was justified. Just as you often see a municipal cruiser with someone pulled over on say the 401. In such cases it is because the offence occurred on a surface road and the offender proceeded onto the highway and the traffic stop was made.

If indeed the officer failed to file a report that would fall under the police services act. Unless it has been amended recently under that act another agency, (say OPP), can not conduct an investigation into the actions of a TPS member unless they are "invited" to do so by the TPS chief. So again they, (OPP), will simply refer the OP to a TPS location. Also the average "street level copper" won't go anywhere near this, they prefer someone else deal with it, (a TPS supervisor or preferably even Professional Standards Branch, (internal affairs in the old days). If the OP asked 5 patrol officers his/her opinion on a matter such as this, they would likely get 5 different answers, "perhaps" one may actually give a correct or close to correct answer, they simply don't deal with the police services act, as a constable, (other than to avoid getting involved)..lol

Jurisdictional boundaries are murky in Canada. About 4 years ago I "disobeyed a traffic sign" to get myself out of a potential dangerous traffic situation in York Region just at the border with Peel Region. A Peel Region Constable stopped me as I entered Peel Region and ticketed me. I contacted my lawyer at which point they informed me that the officer's action was legal. I don't think it would hurt for the individual to have a chat with OPP and to get their opinion on the incident.
 
If there was no contact, it's not a collision as per the MTO. The other driver will not have to give his/her insurance info and particulars to the OP. At most, the driver of the truck is 'indirectly involved'. They could still be charged for offences under the HTA/CC if the witnesses have enough evidence to offer.

That you aren't satisfied with the way TPS dealt with it only raises one concern in my mind - is the driver a police officer? If so, that officer likely used police resources (MTO records, police database, CPIC) to identify you, in relation to something they are involved in. That is a major no-no in the policing world, and usually results in charges under the Police Services Act for breach of trust or discreditable conduct. In that case it would be investigated by the Professional Standards Bureau (PSB) of TPS.

What happened to you on the road is unfortunate, and I don't want to downplay that. But, it will be an uphill battle to lay/prosecute charges for that unless you have some sparkling witness testimony.

To me the real issue here is how did this person access your personal information? And that can be uncovered by the PSB. All MTO inquiries are logged. If someone accessed your driver's licence info it will have been recorded.

My advice is to keep the voicemail messages and follow it up with TPS, as an investigation into someone uttering threats.

Bottom line is, the traffic incident is minor compared with the possibility of an officer abusing his authority to intimidate you.
 
If there was no contact, it's not a collision as per the MTO. The other driver will not have to give his/her insurance info and particulars to the OP. At most, the driver of the truck is 'indirectly involved'. They could still be charged for offences under the HTA/CC if the witnesses have enough evidence to offer.

...

Your comments are really insightful, Bike Cop. It's really valuable to have a member of the "other side of the fence" in here giving input like these.
 
First of all- this is nuts. Glad your ok and the damage is minor.
Second of all, in response to your question I've got to agree with Rob and RockerGuy. Report should be filed on site if the other driver actually fled the scene left you on the ground and you've got witnesses. That aside insurance can get tricky and I really don't think you'll get ahead with the report.
Third and to me most importantly in my opinion is in agreement with Bike Cop. Which certainly isn't like me to date, but I couldn't agree more. Having the pick up driver charged for the incident and having them deemed at fault will be very difficult. But whether or not the driver was an officer, or is any way acquainted with an officer who either way abused their resources and authority is a much bigger issue which will be a lot easier to prove.
 

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