Can we legalize lane filtering yet?

prillerFan said:

This again? "splitting" and "filtering" are the same thing.

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By definition of HTA? Regardless, I don't think they are the same thing, and judging by your comment it would seem many others do not as well. Why do you think they are the same thing? Technically, both would be lane-sharing. Do I need to re-hash what I think they are? lol - I will anyways...

Filtering - like water through coffee grind, let's you filter through otherwise stationary objects (cars) to the front.
Splitting - objects (cars) are no longer stationary, and you split the objects (cars) by riding between them to pass them.

Bagman said:

By definition of HTA? Regardless, I don't think they are the same thing, and judging by your comment it would seem many others do not as well. Why do you think they are the same thing? Technically, both would be lane-sharing. Do I need to re-hash what I think they are? lol - I will anyways...

Filtering - like water through coffee grind, let's you filter through otherwise stationary objects (cars) to the front.
Splitting - objects (cars) are no longer stationary, and you split the objects (cars) by riding between them to pass them.

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Keep telling yourself that.. the rest of the world doesn't care.

prillerFan said:

Keep telling yourself that.. the rest of the world doesn't care.

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LOLWUT - I guess... umm.. you keep telling yourself the same thing: "the rest of the world doesn't care either?" Anyhoooooo.

Thanks for engaging in an adult conversation. My mistake - forgot it's GTAM - the land of F*wits. You did read the part where I - in earnest - asked why you felt they were the same, right???

So after reading ​most of the threads in here, no one has actually stated on how to go about the advocation of changing the law. I have seen some interesting comments, tho they are more personal opinions on whether it should be legal, why it shouldn't be legal, the dangers of splitting, etc etc. I have seen quite some proof stating that it is safer for bikes to lane split, and I don't mean videos but studies actually conducted.

I think that some people are concerned that drivers will 0 concern and still "open their car doors" or change lanes and block bikers. One question tho, why are they opening doors in the middle of the highway or the street, just to block people. What if that were a cyclists. The only difference between a cyclist and a biker is that one has a motor and one is manually propelled. So WTF! In order to actually have the ministry listen, there needs to be some noise. Sign a petition, come together and higher a lobbyist (if you guys have that here) and get organizations that are safety related like IIHS to support your claim to have the government listen. Debating this in a thread online is not gonna accomplish anything. You voice some opinions big deal, whats the benefit?

Another organization that you may have to convince is the IIS (Insurance Institute of Canada). Convincing them could go along way, but you would still have to band together and lobby. Having just one person send a letter in favor of Lane Splitting/Filtering ain't gonna cut it and not gonna change anything.

I am new to this community so, you guys would be the ones to talk to about teaming up with some sort of community organization to get the ball rolling.

How important is this anyway? Is worth doing all this work? Or is just a sore point that you want to vent about when the season comes around.

Doesn't matter what you think it is what the law states and as you pointed out lane sharing or the correct terminolgy, "not driving in a proper lane" or failing to maintain your lane as described in the HTA treat both of these actions as exactly the same charge.

Both are illegal in Ontario. Doesn't matter what you or anyone else wishes to "define" it as. Sort of like getting charged for urinating in public, one could say I wasn't urinating I was peeing, or I was relieveing myself..LOL

Bagman said:

By definition of HTA? Regardless, I don't think they are the same thing, and judging by your comment it would seem many others do not as well. Why do you think they are the same thing? Technically, both would be lane-sharing. Do I need to re-hash what I think they are? lol - I will anyways...

Filtering - like water through coffee grind, let's you filter through otherwise stationary objects (cars) to the front.
Splitting - objects (cars) are no longer stationary, and you split the objects (cars) by riding between them to pass them.

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Well to even get it "spoken" about in the legislature, you would need a petition with I believe it is at least 25,000 names. Good luck. To the average Ontarioian this isn't something they would support, (they don't want someone else to get there faster easier then them). You mention hiring a "lobbyist" I am part of a large organization that uses a lobbyist at Queen's park, we pay approx $60,000 every three nths for this and that is considered a "part time lobbyist". So I doubt most members here would wnat to kick that kind of cash

Just pointing out some of the difficulties but hey if someone wants to spend their time and resources on this issue doesn't affect me. I am in no hurry to lane split.

Then this would be such a LOW priority for the MTO to even look at. There are likely many many many more pressing issues for them to address, than this issue which would serve a "relatively" small number of road users.

vsnlweb said:

So after reading ​most of the threads in here, no one has actually stated on how to go about the advocation of changing the law. I have seen some interesting comments, tho they are more personal opinions on whether it should be legal, why it shouldn't be legal, the dangers of splitting, etc etc. I have seen quite some proof stating that it is safer for bikes to lane split, and I don't mean videos but studies actually conducted.

I think that some people are concerned that drivers will 0 concern and still "open their car doors" or change lanes and block bikers. One question tho, why are they opening doors in the middle of the highway or the street, just to block people. What if that were a cyclists. The only difference between a cyclist and a biker is that one has a motor and one is manually propelled. So WTF! In order to actually have the ministry listen, there needs to be some noise. Sign a petition, come together and higher a lobbyist (if you guys have that here) and get organizations that are safety related like IIHS to support your claim to have the government listen. Debating this in a thread online is not gonna accomplish anything. You voice some opinions big deal, whats the benefit?

Another organization that you may have to convince is the IIS (Insurance Institute of Canada). Convincing them could go along way, but you would still have to band together and lobby. Having just one person send a letter in favor of Lane Splitting/Filtering ain't gonna cut it and not gonna change anything.

I am new to this community so, you guys would be the ones to talk to about teaming up with some sort of community organization to get the ball rolling.

How important is this anyway? Is worth doing all this work? Or is just a sore point that you want to vent about when the season comes around.

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It's not legal and won't be legal here. Stop wasting bandwidth.

if any of you are looking for the government to give you rights you are in the wrong province, people in Ontario are simple not responsible enough to filter / split lane as well as buy alcohol at private stores, smoke weed legally, and many other things mom said are bad for us.

lane filtering should be legal, lets move onto a move important topic that hasn't been discussed yet......how do you feel about wearing protective gear while riding?????

[video=youtube;kWh0t1fX_EY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWh0t1fX_EY[/video]

clutch said:

[video=youtube;kWh0t1fX_EY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWh0t1fX_EY[/video]

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Won't happen here in any of our lifetimes. Motorcycles are seen as toys and not transport. It'd be great if filtering was allowed, but won't happen.

With congestion increasing however, I can see more and more scooters and smaller bikes filtering in the city core.

nfq said:

Won't happen here in any of our lifetimes. Motorcycles are seen as toys and not transport. It'd be great if filtering was allowed, but won't happen.

With congestion increasing however, I can see more and more scooters and smaller bikes filtering in the city core.

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... until the Civic and Provincial Governments go looking for even more money and decides that nailing filterers is a cash cow, of course.

For a lot of riders, myself included, this is a non-issue. Where I live, population 5000, traffic is not a problem. When I go "Downtown" (Toronto), I'm in my cage 95% of the time. It'll likely result in charges if I start splitting in my Ram 2500hd.

Iceman said:

For a lot of riders, myself included, this is a non-issue. Where I live, population 5000, traffic is not a problem. When I go "Downtown" (Toronto), I'm in my cage 95% of the time. It'll likely result in charges if I start splitting in my Ram 2500hd.

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I would like to thank you for not splitting in your Ram 2500. It would be a funny GTA5 moment before your arrest and carnage end however.

the reality is the splitting nay-sayers simply haven't experienced it and don't understand why it is safer...if you learn to ride somewhere that it is legal (like CA or in EU) you know it is...don't try to change the minds of the ignorant..you'll only get frustrated.

I don't think it will ever be fully legal in ONT simply because we riders are such a minority group so even if we commit money to a campaign people just won't get on board. I filter/split when riding here when its safe and appropriate to do so (like in busy Toronto or London traffic)...I find people aren't any more hostile here than where it is legal to split/filter...your mileage may vary. Better a ticket than rear ended or sitting in traffic going insane.

people talking about "how will drivers react", etc...one thing you need to realize is a) people aren't paying attention - they won't be reacting until you're already past and b) the roads are CONSIDERABLY wider here than places like California or EU countries...there is so much room on Ontario roads I'm pretty sure you could split lanes in an economy car.

nm1 said:

the reality is the splitting nay-sayers simply haven't experienced it and don't understand why it is safer...if you learn to ride somewhere that it is legal (like CA or in EU) you know it is...don't try to change the minds of the ignorant..you'll only get frustrated. I don't think it will ever be fully legal in ONT simply because we riders are such a minority group so even if we commit money to a campaign people just won't get on board. I filter/split when riding here when its safe and appropriate to do so (like in busy Toronto or London traffic)...I find people aren't any more hostile here than where it is legal to split/filter...your mileage may vary. Better a ticket than rear ended or sitting in traffic going insane.

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Just how many motorcyclists are rear ended each year in Canada? People who are pro filtering make it sound like there is nothing but carnage as a result of being rear ended, and use this as justification.

Well in Ont for the latest stats from TC< (Transport Canada) for the years 2008 - 2012, there were less than 9% ,(of all collisions involve riders), who were involved in a collsion that resulted in either injurines or a fatality. Now as we know the VAST majority of rider accidents are NOT rear end collisions. So is this really a justification? The more likely answer is revealed in the second paortion of your last sentence... or sitting in traffic going insane. Althoug I haven't found any stats on people actually going insane in traffic..LOL

hedo2002 said:

Althoug I haven't found any stats on people actually going insane in traffic..LOL

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:lmao:

They should really do a study on that. I have seen some ****..

hedo2002 said:

Just how many motorcyclists are rear ended each year in Canada? People who are pro filtering make it sound like there is nothing but carnage as a result of being rear ended, and use this as justification.

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Let me be clear - I don't feel that doing something that harms nobody and actually improves traffic congestion needs any "justification"..my primary reason for doing so is convenience for me, not safety...but I do feel safer filtering than sitting in traffic. If you thought I was saying the primary reason to filter is personal safety then I can see why you felt compelled to call me out.

I would say if there were no cell phones and no texting it wouldn't be a concern but having the bike in first gear and pulling out of the way of someone who didn't stop has actually saved me twice in my riding "career" from being rear ended.

To the OP: no, we most likely cannot legalize lane splitting in Ontario, but unless you're being an idiot I don't think you will get an HTA 172 from doing so...do like the rest of us if you feel safe and just filter where appropriate...in this thread you can see some of the backlash from riders that don't understand it or because they aren't comfortable themselves they would try to deny us...imagine trying to convince them AND car drivers that we should allow filtering?

nm1 said:

Let me be clear - I don't feel that doing something that harms nobody and actually improves traffic congestion needs any "justification"..my primary reason for doing so is convenience for me, not safety...but I do feel safer filtering than sitting in traffic. If you thought I was saying the primary reason to filter is personal safety then I can see why you felt compelled to call me out.

I would say if there were no cell phones and no texting it wouldn't be a concern but having the bike in first gear and pulling out of the way of someone who didn't stop has actually saved me twice in my riding "career" from being rear ended.

To the OP: no, we most likely cannot legalize lane splitting in Ontario, but unless you're being an idiot I don't think you will get an HTA 172 from doing so...do like the rest of us if you feel safe and just filter where appropriate...in this thread you can see some of the backlash from riders that don't understand it or because they aren't comfortable themselves they would try to deny us...imagine trying to convince them AND car drivers that we should allow filtering?

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But THAT isn't filtering, or lane splitting that is a safety technique which is taught and even encouraged by the MTO as an accident avoidance technique. Always have an escape route available and keep the bike in gear.

As I have said I am neither pro nor anti lane spliting, not something I feel the need to do. I guess I don't feel entitled enough to think, that my time is more precious than every other user of the road I happen to be on.

I agree is it likely to result in a 172 offence, (not very likely BUt it can be used and it would alos depend greatly upon the officer and the circumstances of the infraction if the 401 were stop and go at 20 km and someone decides they should lane split at 80 km or more then I doubt the offence notice will be for drive not in proper lane...lol

hedo2002 said:

But THAT isn't filtering, or lane splitting that is a safety technique which is taught and even encouraged by the MTO as an accident avoidance technique. Always have an escape route available and keep the bike in gear.

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I was simply using an anecdote to explain that despite whatever statistics you're referencing, the possibility of a rear-end collision is very real.

Filtering reduces this possibility by ensuring you are not sandwiched between two cars...and sometimes even if you're not someone who actively splits/filters having the skill could save you...because that escape route could be between two cars that are in front of you.

It changes the situation from active safety (you having the bike in gear staring in your mirror) to passive safety (you simply aren't in the path of cars approaching stopped traffic/intersections to be hit)...do not underestimate the value of this...how many times have we been tired at an intersection and realized only when cars have started to move again that "oh oops I should have been watching to make sure nobody was going to hit me from the rear".?

As I have said I am neither pro nor anti lane spliting, not something I feel the need to do. I guess I don't feel entitled enough to think, that my time is more precious than every other user of the road I happen to be on.

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this highlights a disturbing misconception you and some others seem to have that you are in some way cutting to the front of the "line", or prioritizing yourself over others...this couldn't be more wrong...when you filter you are removing yourself from traffic and allowing the cars behind you to reach their destination faster.

entitlement doesn't factor in, prioritizing my own time over others doesn't factor in...lane filtering is just as safe as, if not safer than sitting with traffic, and it saves not only me time but removes me from the "line" so others can also reach their destination more quickly.

nm1 said:

this highlights a disturbing misconception you and some others seem to have that you are in some way cutting to the front of the "line", or prioritizing yourself over others...this couldn't be more wrong...when you filter you are removing yourself from traffic and allowing the cars behind you to reach their destination faster.

entitlement doesn't factor in, prioritizing my own time over others doesn't factor in...lane filtering is just as safe as, if not safer than sitting with traffic, and it saves not only me time but removes me from the "line" so others can also reach their destination more quickly.[/COLOR]

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Yes I second this that if a bike is constantly filtering at red lights they are essentially removed from the traffic queue because they are not taking up a space that a car would otherwise be using. They also take off from the stop line faster than cars so they are not slowing down the cars that are trying to make it through the light. Effectively more people get through the light thus less congestion! It seems that most people believe that motorcycles slow down the line of people waiting the same as another car would but this is false, it can almost be compared to a separate lane that is for bikers only where they can move freely amongst themselves and the cars are not effected (except for the fact that there are fewer cars on the road as a result of people riding a bike).

You may not notice your wait time being any faster if someone filters by you because its equivalent to only one less car in a huge line which is hardly noticeable, but it CERTAINLY DOES NOT slow you down. If someone wants to make their commute time faster and it doesn't impact your commute time why does everyone get so upset about it? This has never made any sense whatsoever to me, just don't be jealous of the biker trying to make them wait as long as you when they shouldn't have to.

Ill make one more comparison just to make it ultra clear. It is as if you are at a grocery store with a big ol' kart of groceries, and you have to wait in line with all the other people who have a lot of groceries. There is an express lane for people who have less groceries and take less time to process, they don't affect your line, in fact they are one less person who would otherwise be taking up a spot in your line. Don't be jealous just because they don't have as many groceries as you! If you are the person at the grocery store with less than 10 items why would you want to be forced to go into a regular line when there is an express one? This is the frustration I feel as a biker who just wants to take the "express lane" but is told that he must wait with all the other people who have filled up grocery karts.