One step at a time...

Section 57(1) of the HTA, (Highway Traffic Act), sets out what is a novice driver.
Regulations, novice drivers
57.1 (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations in respect of novice drivers,
(a) defining novice driver and accompanying driver;
(b) prescribing drivers’ licences of different classes and levels for novice drivers;
(b.1) prescribing the qualifications of applicants for and holders of any class or level of driver’s licence for novice drivers;
(c) prescribing the qualifications and requirements, including a maximum blood alcohol concentration level, for accompanying drivers;
(d) requiring novice drivers with drivers’ licences of any class or level to be accompanied, while driving, by an accompanying driver;
(e) respecting practical and written driving examinations and mental and physical, including ophthalmic and auditory, examinations for applicants for drivers’ licences for novice drivers of any class or level;
(f) prescribing the length of time or the method of determining the length of time during which a person shall be a novice driver or shall be restricted to any level of driver’s licence for novice drivers;
(g) prescribing circumstances under which the driver’s licence of a novice driver shall be cancelled or suspended and the length of the suspension or suspensions;
(h) prescribing circumstances under which a novice driver may be required to attend before an official of the Ministry for an interview and the examination or examinations that may be required;
(i) prescribing circumstances under which a novice driver may be required to produce evidence with regard to successful completion of a Ministry-approved driver education or improvement course;
(j) Repealed: 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 7 (1).
(k) prescribing modifications to the demerit point system prescribed under section 56 in so far as it applies to novice drivers and exempting novice drivers or any class or level of driver’s licence for novice drivers from any of the provisions of the demerit point system;
(l) prescribing conditions and restrictions that shall apply to any class or level of driver’s licence for novice drivers;
(l.1) prescribing circumstances under which the driver’s licence of a novice driver may be changed in respect of its class as a consequence of a conviction for any offence under this Act or for a contravention of any condition on his or her driver’s licence;
(m) prescribing markers or identifying devices to be displayed on or in motor vehicles driven by novice drivers or novice drivers with drivers’ licences of any class or level and governing the conditions of their use and the manner of displaying them;
exempting novice drivers or novice drivers with a driver’s licence of any class or level from any requirement under this Part or any regulation made under this Part and prescribing conditions for the exemption;

Then Section 44(1) says:

44.1 (1) It is a condition of the driver’s licence of every novice driver that his or her blood alcohol concentration level be zero while he or she is driving a motor vehicle on a highway. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
Young drivers
(2) It is a condition of the driver’s licence of every young driver that his or her blood alcohol concentration level be zero while he or she is driving a motor vehicle on a highway. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.

Penalty, novice drivers

(3) Every novice driver who contravenes the condition of his or her driver’s licence imposed under subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $60 and not more than $500. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.

Same

(4) If a novice driver is convicted of an offence under subsection (3), the Registrar may suspend, cancel or change his or her driver’s licence in accordance with the regulations. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.

Same, young drivers

(5) Every young driver who contravenes the condition of his or her driver’s licence imposed under subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $60 and not more than $500 and his or her driver’s licence is thereupon suspended for 30 days. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.

Intent of suspension

(6) The suspension of a licence under this section is intended to ensure that novice drivers and young drivers acquire experience and develop or improve safe driving skills in controlled conditions and to safeguard the licensee and the public and does not constitute an alternative to any proceeding or penalty arising from the same circumstances or around the same time. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
Regulations

(7) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations governing the suspension or cancellation of drivers’ licences of novice drivers or the change in respect of their class for the purpose of subsection (4). 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
Definitions

(8) In this section,

“driver” includes a person who has care or control of a motor vehicle; (“conducteur”)

“driver’s licence” includes a motorized snow vehicle operator’s licence and a driver’s licence issued by any other jurisdiction; (“permis de conduire”)

“motor vehicle” includes a motorized snow vehicle; (“véhicule automobile”)

“novice driver” has the meaning prescribed by the regulations made under section 57.1; (“conducteur débutant”)

“young driver” means a driver who is under 22 years old. (“jeune conducteur”) 2009, c. 5, s. 14.


You will note it says DRIVER'S LICENCE will be suspended it does NOT say that CLASS OF LICENCE will be suspended. your driver's licence covers ALL classes that you hold.

Also note that section 44(1) says a novice driver shall have zero alcohol in their blood while driving a MOTOR VEHICLE on a highway. It does NOT distinguish the class of vehicle for which they hold the novice licence class. Therefore, reading that section if you hold a M1, M2, G1, or G2 regardless of what type of motor vehicle your operating, you MUST have a Zero BAC

Zero tolerance rule

Post deleted - changing facts. Will repost soon.

Re: Zero tolerance rule

In correct, It states that your DRIVERS LICENCE will be suspended Same if your caught riding an ATV or a snow mobile, or operating a boat, and caught above 80 MG your DRIVERS LICENCE is suspended (ALL CLASSES). Doesn't mean you can still drive your car. Your drivers licence is your drivers licence.

But you can read it the way YOU wish. As I stated my friend was suspended because he was operating his car with alcohol in his system with a GM1 licence. Just informing you. Do as you wish.

Last thing can you point to the section of the HTA that defines a "newly licenced driver"
I see a definition of a NOVICE driver nothing about a "newly licenced driver"

EDIT: I re read the section you posted 29(1). You are reading the section wrong all that section states is that you remain as a novice driver for the class of vehicles in that class until you complete the requirements to move to the next level. It in no way excludes conditions from being applicable to other classes of your drivers licence.

marktwothousand said:

Guys, stop this, I hope this section from the HTA will put this to bed once and for all.

First of all, we need to differentiate between NOVICE DRIVERS and newly-licensed drivers. I believe the way the legislation is written, you can be a newly licensed M1/M2 driver WITHOUT being classed as a "novice" in all classes. But on the alcohol issue, it doesn't matter: zero tolerance applies to both M1, M2 as a rule SEPARATE from the rules that apply to novice (and under 21) drivers.

secondly, on the issue of one class of restrictions covering another class of vehicle. See the relevant section of the HTA:

29. (4) A driver classed as a novice driver shall remain classed in the applicable novice driver class until the driver has successfully completed a level 1 or level 2 exit test, as the case may be, for the applicable class of vehicle and has met any other requirements under this Regulation. O. Reg. 340/94, s. 29 (4).

that SECOND underlined part is Key OK guys? YOU REMAIN A NOVICE DRICER IN THE APPLICABLE LICENSE CLASS THAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THAT CLASS OF VEHICLE. If you made it through your G long ago, you do not suddenly become an all around "novice driver" again just by virtue of being a holder of an M1 or M2. You are a novice motorcycle driver in that case, and a fully-licensed automotive driver.

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Re: Seller pulled out...dealerships?

EDIT: I took way too long to post....

marktwothousand said:

I was going for the Honda CBR250RA.
I did shoot an email over to Can North. I heard decent things about them on this board. A little far but not as bad as Hamilton.

Based on what I have read here, I will try to avoid VOS motors.

when you say..."season not yet upon us"... What is typically the time people start shifting bikes, is it right about now or closer to April? I am interested to know how the yearly cycle works...I.e. Will the boards start getting flooded with ads with sellers willing to drop a few bucks off to outsell the other bikes posted? Or do prices actually tend to go up because so many people start looking?

the thing is, in the deal I had, we had agreed on a place for certification and the numbers for the UVIP. He bailed claiming that he changed his mind on getting it certified and wasn't comfortable with the UVIP details we agreed to, so he let it go to someone else as-is.

i am new to this, but please tell me if I am wrong in asking for a safety before buying a bike, and agreeing on some UVIP numbers. If these things are too much trouble for sellers to agree with, F it, imma go dealer.

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Private pricing is already starting to rise, it will only rise more as the weather warms up. Then it'll drop a bit in maybe June or July. I just bought a used bike and while shopping, I found most private sales out to lunch on pricing. Found all the best deals at dealers... Go figure. Google search "used honda cbr250 in ontario", it's not just Kijiji. If you do buy private, it's not out of line to ask for a safety/uvip. Just be aware that some people won't want to, various reasons for this, they're not always hiding something.
Edit also try: motorcycledealers.ca, it's a great way to search local dealership inventory for a particular used bike.

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+1 great advice.

Iceman said:

Private pricing is already starting to rise, it will only rise more as the weather warms up. Then it'll drop a bit in maybe June or July. I just bought a used bike and while shopping, I found most private sales out to lunch on pricing. Found all the best deals at dealers... Go figure. Google search "used honda cbr250 in ontario", it's not just Kijiji. If you do buy private, it's not out of line to ask for a safety/uvip. Just be aware that some people won't want to, various reasons for this, they're not always hiding something.
Edit also try: motorcycledealers.ca, it's a great way to search local dealership inventory for a particular used bike.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Re: Seller pulled out...dealerships?

He is right

250R-ICE said:

Are you sure about this? I always thought if you have your full G all the restrictions apply as per the full G when driving a car etc. When you are riding the motorcycle only the M1, M2 restrictions apply while you are using the bike. The only difference is if you get a fine while under the restrictions of the M1, M2 while using the bike , the fine carries over to your drivers license record. Unless you never had a G license already. Then when you get the M2 license you can automatically drive class G vehicles under the G1 rules.

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License restrictions

Guys,
As a hybrid licensed driver with one of your conditions falling into the novice category, all it is saying is that you are subject to the escalated system of penalties. Each class' conditions still only apply when you are in that kind of vehicle. The zero-tolerance rule is a violation of your licensing conditions, and a violation of licensing conditions is dealt with through the escalated system of penalties. That is all the law is saying.

I never disagreed that your whole license doesn't get suspended if you get suspended: of course it does. If you drive with 0.01 BAC on a bike with an M2, the escalated system gets applied to you and you get a 30-day license suspension of all classes.

All the law is saying is that you are subject to that *escalating system* while violating license conditions as a novice driver. I still get all my G-priveleges when I'm in my cage. I can be at 0.01 in the car and it won't affect my license.

And by the way, I don't know why your friend got a 90-day suspension, because the novice regulations only specify 30 for the first offence. So there must be more at play there. And don't forget people, you can get an administrative roadside suspension if an officer feels you are impaired, no matter what the reading on the breathalizer says. Its at their discretion.

Re: License restrictions

The way Marktwothousand is explaining it is my understanding as well. When I did my M2 upgrade at Conestoga College they warned us about watching what we did with our M2 like having any alcohol in our system as it would affect all of the rest of our licences. As far as I know if you want to have a drink and drive a couple of hours later (which would be below the minimum threshold for a "G" licence) then fill your boots. If you do the same on your bike though and get pulled over in a ride check then you are in some deep trouble as the infraction would affect all of your licences.