One step at a time...

Hi all! I have been wanting to do this for a long time, but I think finally I'm going to get my M1 this week. Not that this whole process is difficult, but it does take…planning. I can see how people who aren’t fully committed, just won’t want to bother. Testing, Courses, Purchasing, Licensing, Insurance, Parking, Gear…Not hard, but…not easy either.

I got the idea a few years back, after riding full-speed scooters while on vacation in 2012. I decided I wanted a scooter when I got back to Ontario, so I went out an got my Motorcycle handbook. Well it ended up collecting dust...until last week. Flash forward to February 2015 on vacation again...I got chance to be a passenger on, and test out, how I felt on a proper (well…124cc…) motorcycle for a good week.

Well, now that I’ve had a taste ‘o honey, I want the whole beehive.

A couple buddies of mine have bikes, but I never really paid much attention. I thought I’d be fine with a scooter and be done with it. I’ve always been comfortable on two wheels in the city, I hardly leave the house without my bicycle, 365 days a year.

My original inclination toward a scooter was because I live DT, and it used to be easy to get away with parking LSM-rated vehicles just about anywhere without a ticket. Sadly, it looks like that will come to an end after 2015.

My main purpose for a bike, at least for the first year will just be mainly to get around town, run errands, and take friends and passengers for rides. I don’t anticipate doing significant highway driving just yet.

And the other big dilemma is, HOW am I going to pass the M1? I have done practice tests on the internet. Honestly, are they harder than the real thing? I am wrong on about 3-4 questions per test. That might be JUST enough to pass, but its not enough for me to confidently go to the ministry and take the test. I don’t want to spend a fortune on re-testing. And what is it with all these ridiculous questions for the general licensing portion? “How many days is your license suspended when you reach X amount of points?”, “How many demerit points do you get for X offence?”, “How long does it take for demerit points to drop off your record?” Really? I thought I covered all that when I was 16. I can cram for the M1 before I go in on Thursday, but I feel like the general licensing portion/G1 is what will flunk me.

Anyway, hi all! I really appreciate all the posts on these forums, I’ve already learned a ton just from lurking and reading over the last week.

Keep in mind that an M1 license is only valid for 90-days and you likely won't be able to ride for the first 30 or more thanks to a winter that just won't let go. There's no harm in waiting out the month of March before going to get that license and getting more use out of it.

I had the same concerns as you re some of the questions on the M1 test. Most are very simple, common sense things no competent driver would have issues with. Some motorcycle specific ones have their answers in the Motorcycle Handbook. But others, like the demerit points and stuff like that were "tricky" for sure. I was 47 when I took the M1; it has been 31 years since I did my G licensing back in the early 80s and I've never had points or fines. How the hell am I supposed to know that stuff? Anyway, I can't recall exactly how many questions are on the M1 (something like 64?) I got a couple wrong, both were questions of this nature. No big deal.

Go here and study up:

https://www.ontario.ca/driving-and-roads/understanding-demerit-points

You'll do fine.

The thing is, if I get my M1 this week, and take a course within the next 60 days, I can convert to an M2 on day 60 which means I will be able to buy and insure a bike come May, amirite?

Like Blackfin it had been 30+years since i had to pay attention to what the "book" said about traffic fines and points. I read the moto handbook from MTO, cover to cover, and passed the M1 with a perfect score. Just read the book, pay attention to what it says and you'll do fine. It's a multiple choice test and easy to get through, hell, my score was based on at least three coin tosses that went my way.
Study, trust your gut,and you'll be good.

marktwothousand said:

The thing is, if I get my M1 this week, and take a course within the next 60 days, I can convert to an M2 on day 60 which means I will be able to buy and insure a bike come May, amirite?

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You can buy and insure a bike with an M1. That's what I did. I had the M2 safety course done, I just had to wait to hand in the papers on the 60 day mark.

I don't know how different insurance will be, but I wouldn't expect much. It's worth asking if you want to start getting quotes, which is a really good idea. Insurance is insane in Ontario and it's thrown wrenches into peoples plans before. Every year I see young guys who buy bikes, just to turn around and sell them because they didn't realize they couldn't afford insurance on them. If you haven't looked into this yet, it might be eye opening.

The M1 written test is the exact test that's give for the G1, but with an extra page literally stapled onto it. Make sure you study for both.

I think those administrative questions are stupid. "How many points do I get for X offence? How the hell should I know? Why does it matter? I know I shouldn't do that and there is a penalty, I'll worry about the points if I get stung for doing it."

marktwothousand said:

The thing is, if I get my M1 this week, and take a course within the next 60 days, I can convert to an M2 on day 60 which means I will be able to buy and insure a bike come May, amirite?

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I'd check out course availability as well, I know Georgian College in Barrie won't be operating any courses for a while yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not too concerned about insurance. I know it's going to be a lot - in the thousands in my first year for sure - but that's the price we pay right? I will shop around, and having access to a couple of group plans, I'm hoping between all my options, I should be able to score something for about $3000 a year in my first year. Does being G-insured for decades with no convictions help my case?

For courses, I am looking at a weekend course the last weekend of March. Yes, that's right, March. I am prepared for it to be cold, but, I want to get it done soon so that I have all of April to research bikes and insurance, as well as get a parking spot in my condo. Spots can be bought from other owners for about $40,000, so renting will probably be my best option for the first year, but I might need to get a street parking permit for a month or two if I can't rent a spot immediately. Yes, I know the elements and vandalism are concerns, but with a cover, wheel lock and maybe an alarm, I feel fine about it. What's the minimum cost for an alarm that will give a warning if someone touches the bike, and sound loudly if they mount it or try to move it?

Biggest hurdle I'm finding right now seems to be people's reaction when I tell them I want to ride. Of course both parents are advising against it and the acrimony I'm getting from others close to me isn't much better. Even when I explain that I am not going to be a speed freak and always going to consider safety first, I think they envision that one guy who lane splits on the 401 weaves in and out of traffic and they see later on the 6 PM news

If it's a viable drive for you, it looks like Conestoga College in Kitchener still has spots available in their M1X course the weekend of Mar 27-29. If you miss that you can catch their Apr 3-5 course.

spray____ said:

You can buy and insure a bike with an M1. That's what I did. I had the M2 safety course done, I just had to wait to hand in the papers on the 60 day mark.

I don't know how different insurance will be, but I wouldn't expect much. It's worth asking if you want to start getting quotes, which is a really good idea......."

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+1 on this. I bought my first bike having already completed the M1exit but had a month and a half to wait to "upgrade" to M2 . If you are going to take the Safety course soon it's good to get your M1 now, that way you have less time to wait to "upgrade" to M2.
Insurance knew I only had M1 but since I already completed the course, they quoted me as if I already had M2.

CRAZY low insurance???

Guys, I just got some good news on insurance. My group insurance broker, whom I already have car insurance with, quoted me on day one of my M2 with a driver training certificate.

generally for garden variety 125-250cc sport bikes, the rate is $850, plus or minus a few bucks.

it seemed too good to be true, so I asked for clarification, maybe they didn't get all my right info? She said, no, it's all correct...the only stipulation with my group insurance provider (Aviva) is that they will not insure new drivers on more powerful (600cc+) bikes and that they won't insure anyone with an M1 only.

So, this is kinda insanely good news for me! I wonder if I should bother hunting around for rates even lower than this. Johnson Insurance quoted me $3400 for a 250cc bike.

Re: CRAZY low insurance???

That's pretty good for a first time rider. I wouldn't expect you'll get any lower, but it doesn't hurt to call. It will only cost you time, and you might end up saving a few hundred more. You never know.

G1 test tips

I passed my M1...with a perfect score! "I don't even need to show you the test, because there's no wrong answers to point out", she said.

Here are some tips for other n00bs on this latest test:
- there is only ONE set of questions on motorcycle safety. None of these were a surprise, they are all what's in the practice tests online. I actually paid $2 for an iPhone app which helped (I didn't want to be bothered with a web interface on my phone). It had 160 questions in the app and pretty much everything on the M part of the test was in that app. I recommend it.
- One part is road signs. If you have had a drivers license for many years already, you really probably won't need to study anything about this at all.
- The biggest surprise will be the questions on general driving and licensing. There were questions in this section driving a CAR, for example, lane positioning, but if you have studied the motorcycle handbook, the same principles apply to this section. One that threw me for a loop was how far to park from a fire hydrant. I guessed and got it correct. It's one of those things that, after you have done so long as a driver, you just don't think about it anymore. Another big one you want to watch out for is the laws around cell phone use. One of the options was can you use your cell phone if it's hands-free? No, the proper response is you must pull over and park before using it. A couple of other questions are based on how many points you need in the Demerit point system to get interviews and suspensions and how long those suspensions last. There are also questions about the length of time of validity of each class of license and how you progress from one class to another.

So, the take away here is that anybody who is studying for the motorcycle test will pass the motorcycle portion but it is the other sections you have to watch out for. BTW, my test was actually written on paper, not a computer.

There were no "choose two options from the list of answers" on my test. It was all: one response per question.

Accidents

Sorry for the double post, but now that all of this gets a little more real now that I'm legally entitled to ride, I've been looking into the safety aspect much more seriously. I know that on a couple other forums here, I've joked about helmet styles and such, but please know that it's just that-- some jokes. In fact, I take safety VERY seriously, and to that end, I've already pledged to myself that I WON'T ride if I don't feel comfortable after taking my M1X course, I WILL avoid highways unless I know I can handle it, and I WON'T be a speed demon.

But it seems everywhere I turn, accidents are-- I wouldn't say inevitable-- but it seems more LIKELY that a motorcyclist will have an accident that causes serious injury or death in their lifetime, than not.

I just had a look at the fallen riders forum here. I didn't know about that until now. But what strikes me about it, is the sheer amount of single-vehicle incidents. Riders sliding off roundabouts, riders hitting poles, riders simply toppling over for no particular reason resulting in a fatal impact.

i mean, I know we can't predict what cars are going to do, but surely if we play by the rules, don't excessively speed, and bike in dry conditions, I thought I could say we'd be at Least "OK" when it comes to incidents caused by our own volition.

but it seems like sometimes random sh*% happens even when you are going by the book.

am I being paranoid?

Re: Accidents

marktwothousand said:

Sorry for the double post, but now that all of this gets a little more real now that I'm legally entitled to ride, I've been looking into the safety aspect much more seriously. I know that on a couple other forums here, I've joked about helmet styles and such, but please know that it's just that-- some jokes. In fact, I take safety VERY seriously, and to that end, I've already pledged to myself that I WON'T ride if I don't feel comfortable after taking my M1X course, I WILL avoid highways unless I know I can handle it, and I WON'T be a speed demon.

But it seems everywhere I turn, accidents are-- I wouldn't say inevitable-- but it seems more LIKELY that a motorcyclist will have an accident that causes serious injury or death in their lifetime, than not.

I just had a look at the fallen riders forum here. I didn't know about that until now. But what strikes me about it, is the sheer amount of single-vehicle incidents. Riders sliding off roundabouts, riders hitting poles, riders simply toppling over for no particular reason resulting in a fatal impact.

i mean, I know we can't predict what cars are going to do, but surely if we play by the rules, don't excessively speed, and bike in dry conditions, I thought I could say we'd be at Least "OK" when it comes to incidents caused by our own volition.

but it seems like sometimes random sh*% happens even when you are going by the book.

am I being paranoid?

Click to expand...

Only partially. I've only been riding for a few years, but I've noticed a pattern in rider accidents. There are 3 types of accidents that account for almost all rider injuries/fatalities:

1) Cars turning in front of riders, specifically left hand turners. You have to be extremely cautious every time you go through an intersection, or see a car waiting to pull out onto the road. Bikes are smaller, so it's easier to be "hidden" behind a car in front of you. People also have a harder time seeing you because of the smaller profile, and it's harder to judge your speed because most bikes have either a single headlight, or 2 that are very close together.

2) Running wide in corners. Someone is riding above their comfort level, they misjudge how sharp a curve is, or run into something slippery. They either panic and stand it up, or they go for it, lose grip, and slide. The former is the more common.

3) Idiots. Guys riding way faster than anyone should on public roads, weaving through traffic, blasting down the shoulder, drinking and riding. These guys aren't asking for bad situations, they're creating them. Not only are they coming up with all kinds of new and interesting ways to die, they're begging for #1 and #2.

Keeping these 3 in mind, have a look through that section again. I'm not saying these are the only ways to get hurt, but they are the cause of a vast majority of accidents. You can still be unlucky. #3 is easy to avoid, #1 and #2 are up to you. Motorcycles are harder to control than a car, and much less forgiving when you hit something. For those reasons riding is never going to be as safe as driving a car.

Re: Accidents

Unless it was already mentioned above. Don't forget to study the Graduating Licensing rules. It caught me off guard when I wrote my M1 test 7 years ago. I already had my drivers lic. for decades before the graduating lic took effect. So even if you have your full G lic. they will give the full G1 test also while you are doing your M1 test.

Re: Accidents

250R-ICE said:

Unless it was already mentioned above. Don't forget to study the Graduating Licensing rules. It caught me off guard when I wrote my M1 test 7 years ago. I already had my drivers lic. for decades before the graduating lic took effect. So even if you have your full G lic. they will give the full G1 test also while you are doing your M1 test.

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ya, this is kinda redic. If you have a G Alrwady, it would make much more sense for all, if they put more motorcycle safety questions in there. The lack of questions specific to motorcycles took me aback.

can anyone show me a video or explain "running wide in corners, causing you to panic and stand up"? What's it mean?

Re: Accidents

spray____ said:

Only partially. I've only been riding for a few years, but I've noticed a pattern in rider accidents. There are 3 types of accidents that account for almost all rider injuries/fatalities:

1) Cars turning in front of riders, specifically left hand turners. You have to be extremely cautious every time you go through an intersection, or see a car waiting to pull out onto the road. Bikes are smaller, so it's easier to be "hidden" behind a car in front of you. People also have a harder time seeing you because of the smaller profile, and it's harder to judge your speed because most bikes have either a single headlight, or 2 that are very close together.

2) Running wide in corners. Someone is riding above their comfort level, they misjudge how sharp a curve is, or run into something slippery. They either panic and stand it up, or they go for it, lose grip, and slide. The former is the more common.

3) Idiots. Guys riding way faster than anyone should on public roads, weaving through traffic, blasting down the shoulder, drinking and riding. These guys aren't asking for bad situations, they're creating them. Not only are they coming up with all kinds of new and interesting ways to die, they're begging for #1 and #2.

Keeping these 3 in mind, have a look through that section again. I'm not saying these are the only ways to get hurt, but they are the cause of a vast majority of accidents. You can still be unlucky. #3 is easy to avoid, #1 and #2 are up to you. Motorcycles are harder to control than a car, and much less forgiving when you hit something. For those reasons riding is never going to be as safe as driving a car.

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+1 on that.
Best advice I received last year was "google, bike fails". I got a crash(pardon the pun)course in why we(bikers) crash
1)we are not visible
2)we, like everyone lose focus now and then or are not experienced and practiced enough for the conditions we find our selves in. The consequences for that, with out a cage to protect us are far more severe.
3)some squidiot out rides his/her skill level doing something fast or dumb or both.
Yes ...I know I just repeated what was said in the quote, like I learned in the M1x course, repetition, repetition, repetition. Get why crashes happen into your head and make a habit out of looking for and avoiding those situations

Re: Accidents

marktwothousand said:

ya, this is kinda redic. If you have a G Alrwady, it would make much more sense for all, if they put more motorcycle safety questions in there. The lack of questions specific to motorcycles took me aback.

can anyone show me a video or explain "running wide in corners, causing you to panic and stand up"? What's it mean?

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While turning, the bike is leaning towards the inside of the turn. When you close the throttle or apply brakes, the bike will stand up. this will change in your intended line. Standing the bike up causes it to go straight .. Running wide


Or you can "watch twist of the wrist 2"
You can find it on YouTube..
It will cover a good amount of your questions.

Re: Accidents

marktwothousand said:

Can anyone show me a video or explain "running wide in corners, causing you to panic and stand up"? What's it mean?

Click to expand...

It just means not turning as sharply as you need to to make the corner. When you "stand up" a bike, it stops turning and goes straight. You end up moving to the outside and right off the road.

This happens when riders enter a corner and are overcome with the feeling they aren't going to make it. The natural reaction is to look at the object or area they're think they're going to hit. You go where you look, so it's a self fulfilling prophecy and you end up going right for it.

The correct response its to look where you want to go: through the corner.