Does a lounder exhaust save lives? | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Does a lounder exhaust save lives?

Just one quick observation. I agree with a few of the points made. BUT today's cars are MADE to be much "quieter" sound proof, then they were even say 10 years ago. 20 years ago most of us drove around with our car windows down in nice weather, (which is when most bikes are on the street), as AC in cars wasn't yet all that common. Then you need to account for better quality audio equipment in vehicles, (meaning people play it louder as they enjoy the sound quality better).

One can't really compare being heard with being seen, as the auto manufacturers don't strive to make vehicles, (cars and trucks etc), with technology that decreases visibility as they do with making the car cabin with decreased noise from the outside.

So I guess one could argue that loud pipes with today's noise reducing vehicles, by design would need to be borderline obnoxious in order to penetrate the cabin. But the hi vis clothing is just actually more effective as the manufacturers haven't decreased vehicle visibility.

If one is only interested in "audio stimulus" then why not ride around with a stereo blaring from the bike or sounding a stebel horn continuously as surely these too would lead to saved lives..lol of course I am being sarcastic in the event it was missed.

But the video blogger again needs to consider ALL factors and not place undeserving importance upon one factor as it is the one that supports his argument.

If loud pipes save lives then why was he unaqble toavoid earth in the beginning of the video???LMAO


There is a difference between obnoxious and audible. They need not be the same but there is overlap. Again, more in the video.

It's also a category-error to compare 'good riding' to 'loud pipes' or 'audible pipes'. Good riding is a given, all the time. On top of that we strive to be visible and audible because on-balance, that's superior to NOT being visible or audible, or being less visible/audible. See? :D

Humans and most mammals notice sounds. We hear because individuals literally survived better for being able to hear. Evolution selected for this trait. Why ignore it when it comes to cagers being able to sense your presence in any way they can sense anything? This is why large vehicles have back-up beepers, or why emergency vehicles have sirens, cops have loudspeakers or bullhorns and nearly every manufacturer-created and street-legal vehicle in the world comes with a horn (which is intended to be heard). Some electric cars have been deemed higher-risk for children and animals in residential neighborhoods, along with other motorists, so some have been fitted with artificial noisemakers simply to make people aware of their presence through a sonic medium.

Passive noisemakers of reasonable volume (exhaust and other noise) helps some creatures self-select to preempt your arrival and get out of the way. If kids are playing in the street in a residential neighborhood with vision blocked by cars and hear you coming, they can respond before you get there. Same with small animals and such. Parents can scoop up kids before they dart in to the street because they heard you coming.

Good riding is a given. We all should strive for this. Being visible? A given. Being seen is better than not being seen, in any way you care to be seen (high-viz, good lights, contrast, large swaths of color for a better silhouette, etc.). Likewise, being audible is simply another way for the cager to know that you are there and that you are on a bike (even the type of bike is indicated by sound). It is never the case that sound is said to work perfectly in all cases. Why? People have other distractions.

What is a common refrain from cagers when they fail to yield to a motorcyclist, resulting in an accident? 'I didn't see him', and these are people who are required to pass eye-exams in order to drive. Why then do we keep trying to be seen? It's because sight is reliable enough to trust that person not to rear-end you at the stops, unless they indicate that they're distracted or haven't noticed you in time. In fact, the squealing of brakes is an AUDIBLE signal that someone is about to rear-end you if it's coming from behind.

It's a fallacy to assume that loud pipes means you don't have to also be a good, astute or observant rider. Does wearing hi-viz gear mean you should ride like crap? No. If loud pipes don't save lives, then loud colors don't save lives—except that they can and do. Neither sight nor hearing works perfectly because humans are imperfect, but that's why more stimulus>less stimulus.

Snipers wear camouflage for a reason, and they lie still for a reason. They do this to avoid detection. Thieves sneaking around at night may attempt to be both less visible AND less audible. So, why when it comes to being noticed by errant cagers would we not want to exploit both visual AND audio stimulus?

And that is the crux of the argument. Loud pipes save lives, and the statement is true even if it only saves your life once.

-Taken from the comments of the original video. Sounds reasonable to me. Yay.. 1 star thread.. :rolleyes: my *feelings*
 
I find it funny you inferred in your post that in your experience the cars in CA moved BECAUSE you had the loud pipes then when the other poster stated clearly he had a "silent" bike without the loud pipes, You argue that he and I are assuming this with this statement.

It really isn't that funny. If I was behind a car on the freeway and I'm just splitting between them, and this car is right next to another car. I blip the throttle and the car then hears me and moves over. It happens about 100 times a day. I could have slipped through them any of those times, but I use my sound to help the driver in front of me understand that I want to pass him. Some ********** close the gap, others make it wide open.

So please explain how they heard you because you had loud pipes, but they also heard him on what he described as a "silent bike" Those are diametrically opposed arguments.

Do you even understand what you have said? They are not at all diametrically opposed. Directly related. Sound. They heard him because his bike still makes noise. They most likely also saw him.

If indeed as you have just assumed in that statement they heard him on a "silent bike" then you defeated your own argument that loud pipes save lives as it would "appear" from this that those drivers were able to hear a "silent bike" just as well as they heard one with loud pipes therefore, logic would dictate that loud pipes have NO effect.

ACTUALLY you are assuming all humans have the same ability to hear. There are people who cannot hear a damn thing, and there are people who can hear better than average. This shouldn't surprise you. Its also another one of those facts you are ignoring.
Also they are not arguments.

So which is more relevant his experience on a "silent bike" or your experience on a bike with loud pipes? If they both achieved the same result.

Unless the experiences are identical and testable you will never know.. :D

As for your pointing out the doppler effect on Wiki, You should note that the observers were stationary and not mobile, (as would be another vehicle on the road, with all the distractions), therefore not relevant to the question you poised.

The question I posed doesn't imply anything to do with stationary or moving. It could mean for both.

But my best advice is, if loud pipes, (with or without supporting science), lead you to think or give you an increased sense of personal security then by all means go get them, install them and enjoy them. Agreed.

But to simply argue that as a result of one or two personal experiences, (without taking into consideration ALL factors), is simplistic.

I stated this in post #35. I accused you of not taking into account many variables.


Your right I can't say why those other vehicles or pedestrians reacted the way they did, nor can you but you simply suggest the only possible explanation if the mere existence of loud pipes.

I left that to interpretation while offering my views. I wasn't assuming anything. I was only relating my experience as well as my opinion, while asking for science.

Again going back to the video and replaying it a few times you can also just before the pedestrian reacts hear a horn, (given it is Europe I can't tell if it was the bike or a car horn. That factor needs to also be placed into the equation.

I still believe that: more stimulus>less stimulus. While obeying local DB rules.
 
If loud pipes save lives then why was he unaqble to avoid earth in the beginning of the video???LMAO

Dude.. I understand what you are saying. I just think that being as vulnerable as we are on those bikes. Any advantage I could have I would take.
 
The only people who hear loud pipes are those relaxing in their backyard, Cops, and my neighbours when I'm warming up the bike every day at 4 am. I had a 2000 bandit 1200 with a Yosh pipe, sounded so nice, and so loud! Since then I've decided (generally) not to bother replacing stock pipes, I love the sound but can't stand the noise.


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A horn is better than loud pipes and doesn't piss off everyone around who is trying to relax. These ****** off people then lobby for noise bylaws.

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Have you considered, in your search for the science asking the manufacturers why they don't install louder pipes as a "safety feature". I would assume if there were science to substantiate doing so they would do it. currently there are only noise restrictions, (to my knowledge), placed upon after market pipes. They have installed seat belts, air bags, better lighting etc, all in the name of safety. I would think the first manufacturer to do so would gain a slight market advantage as they could market their products as more safe than others, (Volvo used this to their advantage quiet well).

I agree advantage is good but in my experience, many use, (and ultimately rely upon), the loud pipes save lives position, (and the sense of security), to replace good riding skills.

Dude.. I understand what you are saying. I just think that being as vulnerable as we are on those bikes. Any advantage I could have I would take.
 
I always find it amusing how most of the people who need loud pipes for safety ignore that...

High visibility gear saves lives,
Rider skill saves lives,
Riding sober saves lives,
Full face helmets save lives,
Proper gear saves lives.

I guess when you ignore many to all of the above you need the loud pipes? Unless you are doing ALL the above safety cannot be all that much of a concern....so the loud pipes are fashion-posing and safety is an excuse, otherwise the rider would take it seriously...

Of course loud pipes don't point the sound out the front of the bike, it comes out the back--not the best direction for safety. If you are serious, point them forward.

BTW trains have horns that point FOWARD. Trains have horns because not all crossings are controlled.... Locomotives have lighting and contrasting colour schemes to improve visibility. Controlled crossings have high visibility. Most important, trains don't have loud exhaust for safety!
 
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I know my friends that run loud pipes, I have never seen it, but apparently they cause people to move and give more room for the bike have you detected this phenomenon, when riding with your friend??? lol
Yeah, occasionally ppl will notice him coming...the ones not distracted by headphones or texting. Cages,not so much.
 
Have you considered, in your search for the science asking the manufacturers why they don't install louder pipes as a "safety feature". I would assume if there were science to substantiate doing so they would do it. currently there are only noise restrictions, (to my knowledge), placed upon after market pipes. They have installed seat belts, air bags, better lighting etc, all in the name of safety. I would think the first manufacturer to do so would gain a slight market advantage as they could market their products as more safe than others, (Volvo used this to their advantage quiet well).

I agree advantage is good but in my experience, many use, (and ultimately rely upon), the loud pipes save lives position, (and the sense of security), to replace good riding skills.

I have actually considered that. I also found a lot of material on what associations think, and racing organizations. Just not scientific testing. Which is what I am after the most. You are probably right. I haven't been riding long enough to know about the abusers of the argument.
 
The only people who hear loud pipes are those relaxing in their backyard, Cops, and my neighbours when I'm warming up the bike every day at 4 am. I had a 2000 bandit 1200 with a Yosh pipe, sounded so nice, and so loud! Since then I've decided (generally) not to bother replacing stock pipes, I love the sound but can't stand the noise.


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I prefer not to attract the undue attention of the above, so stay stock and rely on my attention to danger.
 
A horn is better than loud pipes and doesn't piss off everyone around who is trying to relax. These ****** off people then lobby for noise bylaws.

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I.e. belfountain thanks to the loud chrome pipe crowd. When you can't stand inside a building and hear the person you're talking to over some douche on his bad ass hog, the ***** gotten out of hand.
 
Nonsense some will always believe, no matter what. There's not a shred of a scientific evidence that it is the case. HD crowd with straight pipes do not certainly count as one .... Obnoxious at best, to me and others I ride with.
 
You can tell when it's winter and no one can get out to ride. These threads come up.

It's already been covered, there are at least ten other things riders could do to make themselves visible.

It was a nice era to have a stock Cuda or Big Block Chevelle pass by and most folks grin at the sound.

Same with a bike.

Now? It's just noise. And there is no benefit to safety. Sorry to deny the rationalization.

I do like the sound of an after market exhaust on a bike. Ducati, Harley or what ever.

But it's just become ridiculous.

I've got stock pipes on the Sporty and it's nice to have a chat with the better half. I miss the sound but, only occasionally.

I may upgrade to something a little louder. But it's not to attract the cops.
 
Thread title says "louder exhaust". In all honesty I thought this was different than the usual FTW straight pipe douchbaggery. Some bikes benefit from breathing mods like airbox opening and slip on. It's going to run, sound and look better with the added bonus of lighter weight. If people are more aware of my presence as another side benefit, then good.
 
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[video=youtube;kvKecSeVPu0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvKecSeVPu0[/video]

Sure does sound nice.. lol
 
Well you cannot help but answer "yes" because if someone doesn't make a lane-change because they hear something, then it has potentially saved a life.

On the other side of the coin, sitting at a light burbling doesn't enable you, the rider, to hear anything out of the ordinary, so if in your "sound world" something is missed, it could have potentially cost a life. Google you-tube and see the number of rear-enders that have happened over the past couple of years while bikes are standing still - scary stuff.

From personal experience I can say that sitting in someone's blind spot is probably the best use of loud pipes; the solution of which is simply not being there.
 
I love the sound of a bike with a nice tuned pipe. I had a ZZR1200 with a set of D&D slipons. Had the O.P.P at a Friday the 13th rally that he heard my bike coming over all the straight piped cruisers and I might want to look into quieting my bike down. Even my Concours14 I have a pile on. I don't believe Loud Pipes do anything other than make noise or make power. If I'm riding and get infringement of one of those loud pipe bikes the noise disappears, so how can loud pipes save lives.

What a loud pipe reminds me of is this.
[video=youtube;xGyKBFCd_u4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyKBFCd_u4[/video]
 
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I always find it amusing how most of the people who need loud pipes for safety ignore that...

High visibility gear saves lives,
Rider skill saves lives,
Riding sober saves lives,
Full face helmets save lives,
Proper gear saves lives.
Ha! So true.
 
Loud pipes save lives. And I am Santa Clause too.
 

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