How to keep young people from turning to ISIS? | Page 8 | GTAMotorcycle.com

How to keep young people from turning to ISIS?

griff2 said:
I agree with her on that point. If someone wants to go abroad and fight for ISIS, or for the Kurds, or becomes mercenaries of any persuasion for that matter, let them turn in their passports.
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Just curious... What are your views on Bill C51? I am personally conflicted on it.
 
Zoodles95 said:
Just curious... What are your views on Bill C51? I am personally conflicted on it.
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The underlying goals are laudable, but it's a potentially serious erosion on individual liberties and privacy. It will ultimately come down to the safeguards established to avoid abuse by government agencies and to allow individuals to appeal actions or labelling taken against them.
 
griff2 said:
The underlying goals are laudable, but it's a potentially serious erosion on individual liberties and privacy. It will ultimately come down to the safeguards established to avoid abuse by government agencies and to allow individuals to appeal actions or labelling taken against them.
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I agree with you on this. I am concerned about a lack of oversight. I think we presently have a problem with potential terrorists who are actively planning and making posts online but there is not much that our police services can do to keep tabs on them; let alone detain them in any way.

That being said there is a difference between discovering a potential terrorist or terrorist sympathizer who might advance to a more dangerous level and keeping tabs on someone like that and filtering through pretty much anyone's online activities and actions. There needs to be a balance.

As usual the CONSERVATIVES go way too far. They are acting like Republicans/Neo-Cons. I so miss the old Progressive Conservatives.
 
Zoodles95 said:
Just curious... What are your views on Bill C51? I am personally conflicted on it.
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I know you didn't ask me, but I figured I would answer.

I read an article in Macleans last night... the article had something to do with Harper gaining the popular vote by using fear. This article stated that recent polls indicate around 85% support of Bill 51, and with the Liberals backing it too, there is absolutely no chance that it won't be written into law. We are stuck with it.

I, however, am against Bill C-51. I am against sacrificing liberty for surveillance and security. We are moving inch by inch towards the 1984 that Orwell envisioned. The scariest part, to me, is the use of the word terrorist. Is there a precise legal definition of 'terrorist' in this bill? How all encompassing is this term defined? Is there any room for misuse by falsely labeling a person a terrorist?
 
Motorcycle Mike said:
I know you didn't ask me, but I figured I would answer.

I read an article in Macleans last night... the article had something to do with Harper gaining the popular vote by using fear. This article stated that recent polls indicate around 85% support of Bill 51, and with the Liberals backing it too, there is absolutely no chance that it won't be written into law. We are stuck with it.

I, however, am against Bill C-51. I am against sacrificing liberty for surveillance and security. We are moving inch by inch towards the 1984 that Orwell envisioned. The scariest part, to me, is the use of the word terrorist. Is there a precise legal definition of 'terrorist' in this bill? How all encompassing is this term defined? Is there any room for misuse by falsely labeling a person a terrorist?
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Well... I agree with you...

Little to no chance of the NDP gaining power in the next election. Perhaps if Trudeau and the Liberals get in he will read the tea leafs and see that this legislation needs to be "toned down" and applied more even handed. I will give props to Mulcair for getting right out in front of this issue as opposition party should.
 
Trudeau is a tit....and not a bright one either, he'd be terrible at dealing with this issue. Harper doesn't help things either with his cosying up to conservative christians and constant support of Israel. All that does is make extremist muslim nutbars even more extremist so that you get the situation today where kids toddle off to Syria for a spot of jihadism. If you're going to have a secular country do it properly and make sure all the religious idiots stay well away from how the country is run. France does things pretty well I think although many don't support that. I don't agree that all muslims are nutbars jihadi extremists. Every religion has their fair share of extremists and as usual the nuttier ones are the ones you see most often and the ones that make the most noise.

It's my opinion that the older generations of extremists are desperately recruiting younger people to wage their bigotted wars for them as they know full well that not too far from now most youth won't give a crap about who's imaginary friend is the best. That's why you're seeing more of this extreme behaviour, it's a last gasp of a desperate minority craving attention to spread their version of extreme religion.
 
I should also add, due to the news today, that I hope Jihadi John meets Derek the Drone very soon.
 
jc100 said:
I should also add, due to the news today, that I hope Jihadi John meets Derek the Drone very soon.
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I would like to see him captured alive. And then given enhanced treatment. Did I mention I'm a humanist?
 
jc100 said:
Trudeau is a tit....and not a bright one either, he'd be terrible at dealing with this issue. Harper doesn't help things either with his cosying up to conservative christians and constant support of Israel. All that does is make extremist muslim nutbars even more extremist so that you get the situation today where kids toddle off to Syria for a spot of jihadism. If you're going to have a secular country do it properly and make sure all the religious idiots stay well away from how the country is run. France does things pretty well I think although many don't support that. I don't agree that all muslims are nutbars jihadi extremists. Every religion has their fair share of extremists and as usual the nuttier ones are the ones you see most often and the ones that make the most noise.

It's my opinion that the older generations of extremists are desperately recruiting younger people to wage their bigotted wars for them as they know full well that not too far from now most youth won't give a crap about who's imaginary friend is the best. That's why you're seeing more of this extreme behaviour, it's a last gasp of a desperate minority craving attention to spread their version of extreme religion.
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I am hopeful that your perspective on this is what is actually what is transpiring. I do sincerely worry about what this country is going to look like in 100 years when I am long gone from this planet. If somehow the nutbars could die out and those who are religious would practice a nice, peaceful version of it on their own without bothering others... I guess I can always dream.
 
This is an interesting commentary:

February 27, 2015
By Edward Thal


Greater clarity in the ongoing debate about Islam (radical or otherwise) would surely result from greater familiarity with the source document.

There’s a lot of commentary and speculation about the Koran and about those who are informed by its teachings -- about their actions and their motives and their authenticity as Muslims.

Anyone who has an opinion on the matter would be well served by reading the book. I did, and it was a revelation.

Good English translations are available, although it should be noted that only the original Arabic is considered to be the very words of Allah. Since I have an intimate knowledge of the Christian Bible (both the Hebrew Old Testament and Greek New Testament, read in English) I was intrigued by the Muslim assertion that the Koran corrects and completes Bible texts that have supposedly been degraded by Jewish and Christian scholars. That, and the fact that over a billion people stake their lives on the Koran convinced me that I should inform myself of its contents.

So I came to it with an enquiring mind and a readiness to add to my fund of Scripture knowledge. I was surprised by what I found.

Firstly, the Koran is a rather slight book made up of 114 Suras (chapters). It’s an easy and quick read (so I read it more than once). Length is of course no indication of worth or authenticity, but in this case a lot was missing.

References to God, Creation, Adam, Eve, Sin, The Fall, Angels, Heaven, Hell, Abraham, Moses and other Prophets, and Jesus Christ, add nothing new to the original revelations in the Bible, but often detract from or distort the original. Moreover, the frequent brief references to Old Testament figures and events, and some from the New Testament, demand a reading of the Bible first in order to understand the context of the Koranic narrative and make some sense of it. In short, although it is claimed that the Koran completes and fully explains the Scriptures the fact is that it confuses characters and events without adding a single new insight or explanation. (For examples, see Sura 5:114-117; 7:39; 19:20-22; 28:5, 38; 29:39; 40:24; 41:9).

Then there are the numerous calls to violence and revenge or retribution (well over 100; for example, 4:76; 8:12; 9:5-6; 9:29). Much has been written and debated with regard to the unyielding militant tone of the Koran and I will not rehash the arguments here, except to offer a stark contrast for consideration: Whereas a Christian is admonished by his Scriptures (specifically, the New Testament) to lay down his life (figuratively, but literally, if necessary) in love, for the salvation of another human being, a Muslim is taught by his holy book that his highest act of devotion to his god is to kill someone who stands in the way of Islam’s rule. A special reward is earned (indeed, the only guarantee of heaven for a Muslim), if he dies in the process of killing an unbeliever, a blasphemer, or an apostate.

I think that says it all.

But don’t take my word for it. Read the book.
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Snobike Mike said:
This is an interesting commentary:
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Written by a religious studies teacher from the Fairfax Baptist Temple Academy, a private k-12 school associated with a deep fundamentalist Christian evangelical belief, and one of whose missions is encouraging missionaries to spread the word of God. The Christian equivalent of a madrassa.

"We teach and preach The Bible. Our first, foremost and finishing authority is The Bible. We love God, His Son, and His Word. We pray often, fellowship often and share God's Grace everywhere we go and with everyone we meet. Our desire is two-fold: Glorify God and Evangelize the World. Amen."
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Ask a deep fundamentalist like Thal what he thinks about the Catholic Church, and you would likely get a similar critique.
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That doesn't make him evil, doesn't make him wrong, just makes him a "true believer". It also indicates that he is writing from the standpoint of a specific religious ideology that sees itself as the true word of God, and that sees all others as blasphemous.

In any case, he doesn't seem to have a large body of writings behind him. This may as well be a school essay or simple opinion case written by a nobody.
 
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griff2 said:
Written by a religious studies teacher from the Fairfax Baptist Temple Academy, a private k-12 school associated with a deep fundamentalist Christian evangelical belief, and one of whose missions is encouraging missionaries to spread the word of God. The Christian equivalent of a madrassa.

"We teach and preach The Bible. Our first, foremost and finishing authority is The Bible. We love God, His Son, and His Word. We pray often, fellowship often and share God's Grace everywhere we go and with everyone we meet. Our desire is two-fold: Glorify God and Evangelize the World. Amen."
​

Ask a deep fundamentalist like Thal what he thinks about the Catholic Church, and you would likely get a similar critique.
​

That doesn't make him evil, doesn't make him wrong, just makes him a "true believer". It also indicates that he is writing from the standpoint of a specific religious ideology that sees itself as the true word of God, and that sees all others as blasphemous.

In any case, he doesn't seem to have a large body of writings behind him. This may as well be a school essay or simple opinion case written by a nobody.
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Ah, back to the attack the messenger.

Any actual thoughts on the message?

Is anybody able to write about something that they don't love and fully support for it to be acceptable to you?
 
Snobike Mike said:
Ah, back to the attack the messenger.

Any actual thoughts on the message?

Is anybody able to write about something that they don't love and fully support for it to be acceptable to you?
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It comes to inherent bias. Would you take a character study on a black man seriously if it were to be written by a Klansman?

This latest essay you posted carries the same burden.

I have to question why you keep posting such articles. It's one thing to refer to articles that are written with at least a veneer of objectivity by a person who sits somewhere near the center of the competing ideologies and who at least appears to look at both sides of an issue with some balance.

You on the other hand appear to have made it your mission to find attack-articles from any source at all. Judging by your latest effort, you would post an article from a 5th-grade child of a Klansman if it supported your point of view, and then try to pass off the article as yet another sort of proof of your ideology.

In simpler vernacular, what you are doing is throwing endless amounts of mud against a wall in hopes that some will stick and so you can then point to the wall and claim that it is dirty. I'm sorry but that is wretchedly pathetic. It shows you personally in a far worse light than the religion you seem intent on continually attacking.
 
griff2 said:
It comes to inherent bias. Would you take a character study on a black man seriously if it were to be written by a Klansman?

This latest essay you posted carries the same burden.

I have to question why you keep posting such articles. It's one thing to refer to articles that are written with at least a veneer of objectivity by a person who sits somewhere near the center of the competing ideologies and who at least appears to look at both sides of an issue with some balance.

You on the other hand appear to have made it your mission to find attack-articles from any source at all. Judging by your latest effort, you would post an article from a 5th-grade child of a Klansman if it supported your point of view, and then try to pass off the article as yet another sort of proof of your ideology.

In simpler vernacular, what you are doing is throwing endless amounts of mud against a wall in hopes that some will stick and so you can then point to the wall and claim that it is dirty. I'm sorry but that is wretchedly pathetic. It shows you personally in a far worse light than the religion you seem intent on continually attacking.
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So coles notes, you only accept writings from those that have the same inherent biases as yours, and reject all messages/information from those that don't and revert to attacking the messenger in a vain attempt to avoid the message.

Got it.
 
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