Face
Well-known member
So they don't want you stunting on your motorcycle. That does kinda suck though
Low ceiling height. They're just concerned about our safety, Lol.
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Motorcycle Parking Fee 2015 – Response Coordination Thread
- Thread starter Face
- Start date
Low ceiling height. They're just concerned about our safety, Lol.
plutoz
Well-known member
No actually I'm pretty sure it is due to the design of the automatic gates. The magnetic loops in the ground have a hard time picking up motorcycles (just like the ones at traffic lights), so there is a chance that the gate will come down as the bike is passing through. Pretty much all automatic gates I've seen say no motorcycles on them.
Face
Well-known member
Many gates are cut a little short so they don't hit the low ceiling height when they swing up. Added bonus for motorcycles
so I guess that's why they don't allow them.
plutoz
Well-known member
Many gates are cut a little short so they don't hit the low ceiling height when they swing up. Added bonus for motorcycles
Must be a cheap facility. If they did it properly they would use articulated arms, like this:
Anyway, I think we're getting a bit off topic
Face
Well-known member
Only slightly off topic. One of the issues is that they are trying to use pay & display tickets and the app to solve the "problem" of motorcycles parking all day on the street. So if we can't park all day on the street, and underground garages don't allow motorcycles, they are essentially banning motorcycles from the downtown. It would be helpful if people could post other examples of garages that don't allow motorcycles. We have City Hall, but the more we have, the stronger our argument.
At my workplace we have that no motorcycles sign. At one building everyone goes through anyway as there is no other motorcycle specific parking. At the other building, 500m away, they do have outside motorcycle specific parking. At that building the arm came down on a guy that was trying to park in the back lot. He fell and destroyed his plastics. It was an orange SS. As far as I'm aware he wasn't able to get any compensation from the company because he was supposed to park in the front area that doesn't have a gate. Ironically they were doing some construction there this summer so all the bikes had to park in the normal lot. Haven't heard of any issues yet but I'm always paranoid when I go through there.
I stayed at a Marriot in Ottawa and they had automatic gates on the lot (which wasn't owned by them) and the stupid loops wouldn't pick up my bike so I ended up locked in the lot on a regular basis (they intentionally designed their arms to be impossible to get around, even on a bike). The staff at that lot ****** me off so bad. The staff at the hotel did, too, but at least their manager had some smarts to understand that it wasn't my fault that the crappy parking lot was badly designed and badly managed. Finally, after much complaining, they let me park in the valet spots right out front of the hotel for free. The manager told me if I ever come back there to just contact the manager ahead of time and he'll make sure the staff know to let me park there for free without hassles. So that was nice of them.
Face
Well-known member
What are the names of the buildings and addresses of your work place and the building 500 m away?
Why do you ask?
Face
Well-known member
So when we make deputations at Committee, we can refer to garages that specifically prohibit or restrict motorcycle parking. How many outside m/c spaces do they have at the other building? Do they charge?
It's just a fenced in slab surrounded by a fence with an opening that is about half the size you'd want to be able to get a car through. If I had to guess I'd say you can fit 5 bikes comfortably. Maybe 10 if you really crammed them together. At the building I work at we all just park on the cement in front of the main entrance (for the most part, anyway, some guys park out in the parking lot for whatever reason). This is in Mississauga. I can PM you the buildings if it's really helpful to you but I'm not posting where I work on here (although you can probably find it if you hunt through my history). Oh, and parking for all our employees is free across the entire country, as far as I'm aware.
Face
Well-known member
Don't worry about sending me the address. We need Toronto (mostly downtown) garages as examples since we're dealing with a potential Toronto bylaw. Mississauga examples won't matter. But thanks anyway.
kiwi
Well-known member
Ok, it's going to be interesting.. The TPA wants more revenue... So it will for sure affect the free parking for motorcycle's in the future
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ity-wants-more-on-street-parking-revenue.html
http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news...ity-wants-more-on-street-parking-revenue.html
clutch
Well-known member
Looks like city council asked staff to report on tolling the newly revamped Gardiner once it's finished to recoup the costs:
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...dered-for-gardiner-don-valley-expressway.html
The article states a separate fee structures for cars and another one for trucks. There's no mention of motorcycles and scooters as a separate class. Is it fair to make a case for a separate fee structure for motorcycles and scooters due to it's smaller footprint?
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha...dered-for-gardiner-don-valley-expressway.html
The article states a separate fee structures for cars and another one for trucks. There's no mention of motorcycles and scooters as a separate class. Is it fair to make a case for a separate fee structure for motorcycles and scooters due to it's smaller footprint?
Tolling would go into place to help pay for the new build and subsequent maintenance, and to help discourage vehicle use and in doing so reduce expressway congestion. Assuming proper following distances, there is no significant difference in lane footprint between a motorcycle or any small car.
Why should motorcycle riders expect to be exempt from paying their share of the infrastructure building and maintenance cost and their share of highway lane usage?
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clutch
Well-known member
MTO guidelines for safe following distance for a car is two seconds behind, same for a bike. But MTO guidelines for safe following distance for groups of two or more motorcycles/scooters is 1 second behind (staggered formation). Smaller footprint and closer following distance when bikes cluster eases congestion. Is it also reasonable to argue that the lighter bike is less wear and tear on the infrastructure than the car?
I'm not arguing that bikes be exempt. Yes they should pay their share. I'm arguing that they pay a fair share. I'm interested to see if city staff has considered the impact of bikes in their toll report. Where can I go for more information?
You seldom see bikes in groups or even in pairs during the morning or afternoon commuting hours when congestion is most prevalent, so staggered formation following distances are virtually irrelevant unless you force riders to wait in marshalling areas to "group up" before getting onto highways with HOV, HOT, or "all-pay" toll lanes. So there is no significantly smaller footprint, and there is in most cases no closer following distance advantages that would have any effect on highway congestion.
The "bikes inflict less wear and tear on pavement and other highway infrastructure" argument is nonsense. As stated in http://facweb.knowlton.ohio-state.edu/pviton/courses2/crp776/776-roads-handout.pdf , "When discussing road wear cars don't matter: road damage is effectively caused by trucks".
The ESAL coefficients listed below represent the wear effect of a given vehicle class on pavement. Cars barely register. Neither would bikes. Their respective coefficients are so low as to be next to zero, so any comparative wear advantage by bike over car is effectively zero as well.
Vehicle Type ESAL Value
Passenger car 0.0008
Urban Transit Bus 0.6806
SU2 Truck 0.1890
SU3 Truck 0.1303
CS3 Truck 0.8646
CS4 Truck 0.6560
DS5 Truck 2.3187
TT5 Truck Trailer 0.5317
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clutch
Well-known member
Ah, I wasn't sure on that point. That's a great link, thanks.
We seldom see bikes in good numbers really. Toronto's not the most progressive in encouraging more efficient forms of transport. Do you believe that a cheaper toll would encourage more bikes on the road?
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