Very close call on Highway

dextasy said:

rider's reaction time is brutal.....van and rider not paying attention.

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Completely disagree, just because he didn't freak out and grabbed a handful of brakes doesn't mean his reaction was poor.

I would have done the same, as someone that got hit from behind on a motorcycle, I much prefer to do what the rider did (go on the left of the car in a controlled manner) than to grab a handful of brakes and have someone behind me plow into my back or make a aggressive move to the right lane without having the proper time to shoulder check.

He did the best thing someone could have done in that situation and the results demonstrate that.

ZX600 said:

Completely disagree, just because he didn't freak out and grabbed a handful of brakes doesn't mean his reaction was poor.

I would have done the same, as someone that got hit from behind on a motorcycle, I much prefer to do what the rider did (go on the left of the car in a controlled manner) than to grab a handful of brakes and have someone behind me plow into my back or make a aggressive move to the right lane without having the proper time to shoulder check.

He did the best thing someone could have done in that situation and the results demonstrate that.

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He managed to stall the bike, drive in the middle of the lane where he couldn't see, tailgate a van that he couldn't see through, drive in the Toyota's blind spot for a distance, and lane shared with a string of five+ autos, because he couldn't brake in time. If that's the best one can do, then one should do us all a favour, including oneself.

Baggsy said:

He managed to stall the bike, drive in the middle of the lane where he couldn't see, tailgate a van that he couldn't see through, drive in the Toyota's blind spot for a distance, and lane shared with a string of five+ autos, because he couldn't brake in time. If that's the best one can do, then one should do us all a favour, including oneself.

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its easy to arm chair judge, let's be real, he kept the same distance as we all do, how many of us have stayed behind a car that doesn't allow us to see in front, anyone that says they NEVER do is full of it.

He didn't ride in the middle of the lane all the time, I saw him inching to the right in order to see in front of the van, many times I ride in the middle when I see a car in the right lane that seems to be distracted or a plain bad driver, you weren't there to really see. You ride in the spot you feel you are the safest, keeping the right track always no matter what is dumb.

I watched the video without sound so i didn't know he stall the bike but regardless how is that relevant?

He lane shared with 5 cars because he felt safe doing so instead of slamming on the brakes, I have done it. Once you are in control it is better to slowly stop instead of doing any sudden movements, so what he shared lanes with 5 cars?

Anywho - I bet most people talking crap in this thread would have looked like a fly on the back of that car.

I won't say I never get stuck behing a vehicle I can't see past, but I minimise it as much as possible. I also wouldn't have lane shared 5 cars deep. In the same situation I would have been in the right lane and past the van when he had to brake and swerve. I always try to have a buffer of space around me.

ZX600 said:

its easy to arm chair judge, let's be real, he kept the same distance as we all do, how many of us have stayed behind a car that doesn't allow us to see in front, anyone that says they NEVER do is full of it.

He didn't ride in the middle of the lane all the time, I saw him inching to the right in order to see in front of the van, many times I ride in the middle when I see a car in the right lane that seems to be distracted or a plain bad driver, you weren't there to really see. You ride in the spot you feel you are the safest, keeping the right track always no matter what is dumb.

I watched the video without sound so i didn't know he stall the bike but regardless how is that relevant?

He lane shared with 5 cars because he felt safe doing so instead of slamming on the brakes, I have done it. Once you are in control it is better to slowly stop instead of doing any sudden movements, so what he shared lanes with 5 cars?

Anywho - I bet most people talking crap in this thread would have looked like a fly on the back of that car.

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The cause of this near miss was following distance.

We are on public roads (where situations change constantly) not race-tracks; what does it matter if someone changes lane ahead of you because you are leaving a proper gap? Keep driving/riding like this and eventually your luck is going to run out.

My motorcycle has side-luggage meaning I probably would not have fit to the left. The only space that you can control is the space ahead of your vehicle, manage that space well and you will avoid these near misses.

trebororr said:

The cause of this near miss was following distance.

We are on public roads (where situations change constantly) not race-tracks; what does it matter if someone changes lane ahead of you because you are leaving a proper gap? Keep driving/riding like this and eventually your luck is going to run out.

My motorcycle has side-luggage meaning I probably would not have fit to the left. The only space that you can control is the space ahead of your vehicle, manage that space well and you will avoid these near misses.

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30 years and counting, I guess I have a lot of luck.

Did you guys really have enough time to safely move to the right lane? watch the video again and tell me. It's easy to say he didn't ride properly and didn't leave enough space but realistically in Toronto if you leave more of a gap than what he did, everyone will be taking up the space in front of you and make it more dangerous with people shoving their cars in that gap. At least to the left he knows cars are not going to crash into him.

Anyways, to each their own, none of us were there.

ZX600 said:

its easy to arm chair judge, let's be real, he kept the same distance as we all do, how many of us have stayed behind a car that doesn't allow us to see in front, anyone that says they NEVER do is full of it.

He didn't ride in the middle of the lane all the time, I saw him inching to the right in order to see in front of the van, many times I ride in the middle when I see a car in the right lane that seems to be distracted or a plain bad driver, you weren't there to really see. You ride in the spot you feel you are the safest, keeping the right track always no matter what is dumb.

I watched the video without sound so i didn't know he stall the bike but regardless how is that relevant?

He lane shared with 5 cars because he felt safe doing so instead of slamming on the brakes, I have done it. Once you are in control it is better to slowly stop instead of doing any sudden movements, so what he shared lanes with 5 cars?

Anywho - I bet most people talking crap in this thread would have looked like a fly on the back of that car.

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+1

IMO, it is the correct action to not brake right away and ride off the danger zone and 5 cars ahead, because, if there is a loaded truck behind (or an inattentive high speed vehicle) that will not be stopping nowhere near in time, I want to be as away as possible from that danger zone.

trebororr said:

We are on public roads (where situations change constantly) not race-tracks; what does it matter if someone changes lane ahead of you because you are leaving a proper gap? Keep driving/riding like this and eventually your luck is going to run out.

My motorcycle has side-luggage meaning I probably would not have fit to the left. The only space that you can control is the space ahead of your vehicle, manage that space well and you will avoid these near misses.

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Having involved in 3 accidents so far, 2 of which played out to me being rear-ended, I'd say, escape first, stop later.

For all we know the first car in the back of the line DID get rear-ended. I starting to think that stopping may actually be the worst accident avoidance technique there is

fastar1 said:

For all we know the first car in the back of the line DID get rear-ended. I starting to think that stopping may actually be the worst accident avoidance technique there is

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It really is, specially if you are in a bike. Even when I am in the jeep and someone in front of me slams the brakes and i have plenty of space to stop, I do not know if the guy behind me is paying attention, I always move left into the shoulder as much as I can.

I wanted to share the following close call experience from 2months ago, but didn't want to go through yet again the anticipated "you gota be doing something wrong, bro" convos.

Anyways..

Recently, I went from this:



to this >>



#1, #2, #4 - paying attention.

#3 and #5 are not.

#1 comes to full stop, so does #2 with plenty of space in between. I, on the bike, see that #3 is not paying attention and there is possibility of crash, so I start to leave space and watch the whole thing while downshifting, making a lot of noise and tapping brakes to get the attention of #5, which is far far away from me - no danger at this moment.

#3 realizes the full stop ahead. Hits the brakes, and swerves to unoccupied shoulder and stops right there and then, without a single **** about whats happening at the back.
Meanwhile at the back, I have all the time in the world to stop, signal, downshift... but I notice #5 is not paying attention and approaching fast.

Trying to find out how not to get rear-ended.

I had 2 escape plans. 1 to the left, 1 to the right.

Right lane is alive and going 100+km/h while we are approaching to 0. Not an option to switch lanes at this late moment. Didn't want to filter in between two lanes either because #2 or #1 may escape to right lane and that would be a whole new set of worse problems.
Left shoulder now fully blocked by #3. Not an option.

#5 is getting bigger and bigger in the mirror. Tires start scorching at my back, and headlights start to bounce around in my mirrors.

I made my way inches away from the bumper of #2 with a combination of throttle and brakes, and started praying as #5 came in.

#5 figures, either, if it were to rear end someone, it should be the car, or, gambled on the hope that #3 could cruise further into the unoccupied shoulder, creating a lot more room for ppl at behind to safely stop, so #5 was pointing towards #3, instead of me. So that was good the good news.

No collisions. Everyone from #2-5 inches away from one another at full stop.

Many things I wanted to tell to both #3 and #5.. Didn't say a word and took off as fast as I could.

AS soon as there's some slowing in the left lane I'd be looking to move into the right lane. I wouldn't have been waiting to slow to 0. If left lane was slowing to 90 and the right is at 100, I'd be moving into the right. At that time there is only 10km/h difference. I go where the flow is most. I drive/ride in the lane with the most space in front....head on a swivel as they say.

To the posters who keep saying that stopping is not a good option because you can be hit from behind, I'm not sure why you guy's keep mentioning that; in this situation the rider could not stop even if he had tried. When you follow the vehicle ahead of you closely you limit your options.

For ZX600, so what you are saying is that you follow the vehicle ahead of you closely because that is safer than giving more space? How do I argue against that kind of logic?????

trebororr said:

To the posters who keep saying that stopping is not a good option because you can be hit from behind, I'm not sure why you guy's keep mentioning that; in this situation the rider could not stop even if he had tried. When you follow the vehicle ahead of you closely you limit your options.

For ZX600, so what you are saying is that you follow the vehicle ahead of you closely because that is safer than giving more space? How do I argue against that kind of logic?????

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Could you quote where I said that? I said that we have all at times driven with less than 2 car length and if someone at that time goes full on brakes that it is safer to go left and get out of the way instead of emergency braking and hope and pray someone behind you a) has the time to brake b) is paying attention.

I have been hit from behind while stopped at a traffic light, my bike totaled and will suffer from back issues for the rest of my life, this gives me a different perspective on how to protect myself.

Comprehension fail!

In the example above, if car #3 would have continued in the shoulder for a few more cars, it would have given the motorcycle and/or car #5 an exit route. I believe the rider did the right thing by not going into the right lane, he would have most likely been smoked.

And there is no way that in any of the two examples (OP and Ugur) they would have had the time to signal and make a normal lane change as Rice Burner indicated he "always does".

But hey, I am sure the two of you always do the right thing ALL THE TIME... lol

Why do people ride on 400 highways in rush hour? Blind trust in strangers?

Riceburner said:

AS soon as there's some slowing in the left lane I'd be looking to move into the right lane. I wouldn't have been waiting to slow to 0. If left lane was slowing to 90 and the right is at 100, I'd be moving into the right. At that time there is only 10km/h difference.I go where the flow is most. I drive/ride in the lane with the most space in front....head on a swivel as they say.

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I know what you are saying and I agree with it, but escaping into another lane is not always the clean resolution to the problem. Developing danger on one lane can quickly spread into the next.

For instance, in the OP video, imagine the motorcyclist moving to middle lane as soon as the rider sees the van's brake lights, and now enter into the blind spot of the van... A worse environment for the rider.

Also, if it came to the decision making for the van driver, whether to rear end the car ahead at high speed, or try to lane share with the little motorcycle on the next lane with certain possibility of contact.. I don't think odds are favouring the rider..

trebororr said:

To the posters who keep saying that stopping is not a good option because you can be hit from behind, I'm not sure why you guy's keep mentioning that; in this situation the rider could not stop even if he had tried. When you follow the vehicle ahead of you closely you limit your options.

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In heavy traffic, as stated before, you will not be able to keep a safe following distance despite all the efforts. Studies show that the safe following distance for a motorcycle at speeds near 120km/h is approx. 5 seconds due to the fact that most cars will consistently outbreak even the best bikes with best riders on them.

If a rider tries to leave 5 seconds with the car ahead in heavy traffic, there will be multiple cars jumping in between, in which case the 5seconds is never kept.

http://youtu.be/skZ7PMR4gpw?t=3m59s

Mind that in the video rider's reaction time is eliminated since they brake from a marked point, so in reality, that difference may be much greater.

Bottom line is; don't invest all your money into proper following distance for in-time stopping. And, don't invest any money at all to the traffic behind that they are paying attention.

So, escape first, stop later.

If I were in the same scenario, I would hope that I would have made the same choice.

You dont know until it happens to you.

****!!!....

semi related:
I get very nervous when riding or driving in a lane that is flowing normally, but the lane next to me is at a dead stop. I start to slow down and look for tires pointed toward my lane. I fully expect someone to jump into my lane. This is a common feeling if I'm in the HOV lane

matthew said:

semi related:
I get very nervous when riding or driving in a lane that is flowing normally, but the lane next to me is at a dead stop. I start to slow down and look for tires pointed toward my lane. I fully expect someone to jump into my lane. This is a common feeling if I'm in the HOV lane

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That's rational... I distinctly remember recently riding shotgun in my father's Silverado and a Maxima started drifting into the HOV lane in front of us (HOV lane was moving, rest of traffic was pretty slow)... I was expecting that we were gonna plow through him but his must have finally checked his mirrors and swerved back in line. And of course, if the main lanes are parked, I will not go 100+ in the HOV