Another question for the trades guys here | GTAMotorcycle.com

Another question for the trades guys here

M

Mongrel

Well-known member
Quite a few GTAM guys have pushed trades for a while. I guess it fits our demographic here. Well trades is an option I've thought of sometimes, but most of the guys I know personally are in IT/programming or law (I don't know why I know so many lawyers, but I can assure you that knowing a lot of lawyers doesn't do you a hell of a lot of good, especially since most of them are American), so I don't have as much direct exposure to trades.

What I do know is that regardless of profession, anyone who's doing well will tell you "You should do what I'm doing!" (well, except the lawyers, they always say "For the love of god, don't go into Law." :p ), so of course I see trades guys on here who say "You should go into trades, I'm doing great!". Well, I do know a few trades guys and lemme tellya, none of them are doing what I'd call great; they're just getting by, doing work in bits and pieces, wherever they can pick it up. They aren't gripers either, though I've heard trades guys I don't know well gripe about getting dicked on their certifications or apprentice hours or such. From what I can tell, it looks like any career - if you know guys who will treat you well and get in with them, you'll do well, but if you don't know anyone it's all too easy to get screwed over.

When I look at masters and apprentice wages posted to the union sites, they dont seem that sky-high either - top rate in a lot of trades looks around the low to mid $30s/hour and that's after many years of putting in your time. That's solid for sure, but hardly outstanding. Like, in Toronto you might be able to carry a mortgage on a crappy condo with that (assuming you're the sole breadwinner, which I am). It's tough to look at that if, like me, you're making about $24 and say "Well after many years of hard work and putting in your time at a big cut in pay that you probably can't afford, you could make just a little more than you are now." So where does the "doing great!" come into it? You own your own business and charge a higher rate? You being paid over the posted union rates? You do a lot of overtime because there's lots of work? You're in a specific subspecialty that charges a premium? You move to Alberta and are laughing at the Toronto rubes from afar?

So to the trades guys on here who think they're doing well, I just want to ask, what are you doing and how did you get there? I don't mean show me your tax returns or anything like that, just the short story version. I'd appreciate it.
 
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In the carpenters union (ICI drywall), it's not hard to break 100K mark. I paid off OSAP, a car and a bike in 13 months (working ridiculous hours for ~150% of minimum wage) and then changed careers. For people that want to work, don't show up drunk and are marginally competent, there is unlimited work available.

The tapers/plasterers had a good life, <$500 in tools that were easily transportable in a bucket, similar salary and always working inside in conditioned spaces. Also easy to pickup saturday jobs helping people tape their basements (or if you want big money, plaster crown molding for $40/ft).
 
Like most other industries you can:

1) Work for someone else and earn a decent income (Union etc.). The definition of decent is up to you.. but given the demand for trades people currently, it's well above what a lot of other careers pay at the initial stages. (Factor in the cost of a degree / specialization etc. into comparison). Not to mention, you can do a lot of side-hustling as a trade to complement your main income.

2) Working for yourself, once you have honed your skill, gives you a lot of money potential. General Contractor's are always looking out for guys/companies that are reliable, as a lot of the current trades companies in the industry are taking it easy due to lack of competition within each other.

Construction is going pretty well in Ontario for the foreseeable future; both in the public and private sector. There is plenty of work to go around for the experienced trades, even those providing lacklustre performance combined with health profit margins.

In comparison - There are plenty of IT professionals, Accountants, Lawyers etc. The path up the ladder is pretty well carved out.. you just have to put in the work and follow it. Of course, you can always do things a bit different from the rest, but given the amount of saturation... chances are, someone else already carved out that path too.


My $0.02
 
Mongrel- You make good points and have legitimate concerns. Don't buy into the rosy picture some people paint. There's always feast and famine cycles and it's hard work. And the feast is relative, you're never going to be rich as an hourly paid tradesman. Your body could be smoked by 60. I think some people are chuffed about trades because the alternative is so much worse. They don't see themselves cut out for the higher paying corporate world or as business owners. I think it's a happy middle ground to be in if you come from a less well to do background and maybe have a couple screws loose. It's a good fit for me. I'm unionized and work bigger projects. This allows me to make a clean break from the employer when that job is done. I can(and do) tell the union "don't call me, I'll call you" and take some time for myself. I'm doing that right now. Spent all summer working on bikes and riding. Now I'm putting the final touches on the home reno. To me that's priceless. Family man needs to work as much as possible. Are you at the mercy of your company? If you lost your job right now, could you replace it quickly or would you have to do a thousand resumes and all that rocknroll. Unless the economy's in the toilet, the tradesman can find something sooner rather than later or relocate. You know your situation better than anyone and at $24 with family it's going to be a tough call.
 
I think for guys stuck in dead-end labour or crappy office jobs, trades are a winner for sure, but I'm kind of in the middle, not sure if I've got a career doing other stuff or not.

I was actually let go in July, but like you I decided the hell with it, I'm going to take a few months off and just enjoy myself. Maybe I would have rushed back if I had kids, but it's just the wife and me and cats. Financially I'll be fine and could probably wait until next summer if I wanted to, but no way do I want to procrastinate THAT much. Now that the weather is turning crappy, I'll be looking to get back on the horse soon, probably the next two or three weeks, once I wrap up some projects. Was looking at going into business with a guy I know, but he was only lukewarm and he got a much better job soon after so that didn't go anywhere.

With my experience, at the very least I know I can get something quick at least in the $20+/h range even if I have to crawl and eat ****. Of course nobody wants to do that and I'm gonna damn well try and do better.

Last couple jobs I just rushed and took the first thing that came up and I regretted that, so I'm trying to take my time and do things better. That might mean a career change or not. Trades comes up as an option because I do like to work on and build things, but I sure don't know that they're for me. I see guys on here say all the time "Oh man, this is great, I'm rolllin' it in as an electrician/HVAC/whatever" but never with any details, and I DO know guys for whom that's not even remotely true, who barely live job to job or were never able to get certified, or who are on hourly but are paid crap like any other joe job, so I'm trying to get a better picture of things is all.
 
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I started my electrician apprenticeship over four years ago. The way I look at it, I am getting paid while learning. Considering how much a degree costs these days and the amount of time you have to put in to get one, it's a great deal. After highschool I got a business diploma. When I was done that, I started being a telecom/networking contractor. It was good, and while looking for contracts I stumbled over the JAC website. Even though it was big pay cut I applied, and I got in. Five years to learn a trade and get paid while doing it seemed like too good of a deal to pass. Compared to my friends that are the same age as me with degrees, I make maybe just a bit less. Once I become a fifth year apprentice I will make the same as most of them. The funny thing is, I don't envy any of them. I take month long vacations while they only have two weeks. Considering I am headed to Utah on an open ended vacation in February I am doing GREAT. Am I going to be "rich", as in join the consumerist hordes, lease an S8, and get the latest and greatest bike? No, but I really don't care.
 
Just you and the wife!! I thought you had kids. Does she work? Are you under 30? I'd make sacrifices today for a 50% wage increase tomorrow. I would do what ever it took to get one of the premium trades. No excuses.
 
inreb said:
Just you and the wife!! I thought you had kids. Does she work? Are you under 30? I'd make sacrifices today for a 50% wage increase tomorrow. I would do what ever it took to get one of the premium trades. No excuses.
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No ****! I would really love a career change but with a mortgage and a kid, not sure how
 
Mongrel said:
So to the trades guys on here who think they're doing well, I just want to ask, what are you doing and how did you get there? I don't mean show me your tax returns or anything like that, just the short story version. I'd appreciate it.
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Simple...

you can't be "successful" just working 40hrs a week any more in this economy. You need multiple streams of income. Do your job, then do some side jobs and if you are good at it, you will make tonnes of money on the side, then put your money down on some rental property and/or investments instead of buying that new bike or car every 3 years. Try fixing old houses and then flipping them, or handyman services, or selling stuff on kijiji or eBay.

There is a real risk/reward ratio here, so its not for everyone.

the problem is.... the next generation is getting lazier and lazier yet feels self entitled somehow to demand a high rate of pay with little skills, and doesn't want to put in the "sweat" to make things happen. I see it all the time.....
 
Success is not working more than 40hrs. Preferably less. Success is making decent money in 40hrs. or less and living below your means. Success is in your mind.
 
Sunny, from what I understood doing sidies as an electrician is very risky. Doing it legally can get very expensive as you need insurance and wsib. Is that true?

As for my generation getting lazy? Damn, I can't find a reliable guy to do some pretty relaxed electronics work for me at $40/hr cash.
 
daught said:
Sunny, from what I understood doing sidies as an electrician is very risky. Doing it legally can get very expensive as you need insurance and wsib. Is that true?

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There is very little risk if you know what you are doing.....
 
inreb said:
Your body could be smoked by 60.
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Yours, maybe.

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SunnY S said:
There is very little risk if you know what you are doing.....
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"Here's a story I heard from a friend of mine." He gets a call from a friend that a few outlets don't work in his house. He opens one outlet to check it and there are 6 nmd cables in it. There are joints, wires under the screw terminals and under the push in terminals. You can imagine how stuffed the box was. Insulation is cut in a few places. He fixes the issue and swears he is not touching a house again.

Seems like you are better off selling weed.
 
I was in a trade, I left years ago. I miss the satisfaction of working with my hands and seeing the net product of my days effort. As a result I will still get dirty and do projects for aquaintences . But I don't miss needing to change my clothes before dinner, coughing up dust and the conversations of the lunch bucket crowd I worked with.
There are a lot of ways to make money, you can work hard or work smart.
And interesting question is what is a good living? great car, nice annual vacation x2, big house. Or does ok house, family camping and putting some away for a rainy day get it done.
 
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