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lane splitting study

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Wow. Didn't expect people to be opposed to lane splitting on a motorcycle forum.
No, our roads aren't too narrow.
No, it's not dangerous as long as the speed differential isn't too high. There are countries that actually promote lane splitting.

Yes, people may get ****** off and try to block you in because "if I can't go, you can't go either" and they should be reeducated.
Yes, motorcyclists should be educated on how to lane split properly.

This COULD work in Ontario, but there's no chance until more states adopt it.
 
Not saying your incorrect on all points just the point we need to reeducate cagers, to make lane splitting safe. Cagers have been "educated" for decades to watch for motorcycles, yet the still don't. Look at how many bikers get hit in the early part of the season as cagers "forget" about motorcycles over the winter months. With our long lapse of winter, how can we expect cagers to remember to leave room and check for lane splitters before they change lanes etc, when they can't even remember bikes are also on the road?

As for the person who posted they have always lane split and any rider that disagrees that it is safe is a moron. Good argument, just becasue someone has an opinion that differs from you then they are a moron? Usually only those who are losing an argument revert to name calling. read the report is doesn't actually SAY lane splitting is safe, it simply says it is NO MORE dangerous than "normal lane riding". While that may not make it dangerous, it also makes it no more safe.

Read the stats from California, where lane splitting has been legal for decades and there are still those who hit lane splitters. i am glad you haven't been hit yet. I rode for 35 years before I was hit this summer, (by another motorcycle). So by your argument until that occurred I could have said riding a motorcycle is 100% safe. It isn't, it is dangerous. Also using the "findings" of this report, (which IMHO is flawed), one could conclude that riding a motorcycle is less dangerous then driving a cage, (there are many times the number of cages involved in collisions then there are bikes), but that is simply as a result of there being many times the number of cages as compared to bikes on the roads.

il3dsm said:
Wow. Didn't expect people to be opposed to lane splitting on a motorcycle forum.
No, our roads aren't too narrow.
No, it's not dangerous as long as the speed differential isn't too high. There are countries that actually promote lane splitting.

Yes, people may get ****** off and try to block you in because "if I can't go, you can't go either" and they should be reeducated.
Yes, motorcyclists should be educated on how to lane split properly.

This COULD work in Ontario, but there's no chance until more states adopt it.
Click to expand...
 
nfq said:
Simply put, the Seasons don't allow for this. The cold and winter can't sustain enough 2-wheeled traffic to warrant any change.
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Seasonal severe weather conditions are not a contributing factor. Lane splitting is legal in the Scandinavian countries -- Norway, Sweden and Denmark. They have much longer winter season, much more variability in daylight and much worse condition secondary roads than most of southern Ontario. Motorcyclists start and end the riding season at about the same time as we do, despite snow that persists to early May and starts late September. It primarily comes down to peoples' attitudes and driver training, whether splitting is viable or not.
 
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I must be an Upper-grade Moron, because I actually read the studies before drawing any conclusions.

Can someone please show me where it states what was headlined in the magazine, in the actual study?
 
robmack said:
Seasonal severe weather conditions are not a contributing factor. Lane splitting is legal in the Scandinavian countries -- Norway, Sweden and Denmark. They have much longer winter season, much more variability in daylight and much worse condition secondary roads than most of southern Ontario. Motorcyclists start and end the riding season at about the same time as we do, despite snow that persists to early May and starts late September. It primarily comes down to peoples' attitudes and driver training, whether splitting is viable or not.
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Maybe it's more the perception during those seasons? European countries are more tolerant of two-wheeled Traffic as it's seen as a valid mode of transporrt vs 'just a toy'.

Also: driver education. Day and night difference getting your license in North America vs EU.
 
nfq said:
Maybe it's more the perception during those seasons? European countries are more tolerant of two-wheeled Traffic as it's seen as a valid mode of transporrt vs 'just a toy'.

Also: driver education. Day and night difference getting your license in North America vs EU.
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Oma and Opa disagree. Most people go through these courses with the object of obtaining a license,
rather than learning something.

Advanced training, doesn`t prevent those who learned something from forgetting or ignoring what they learned.

I`ve seen my share of jerks and wtf drivers, on two wheels and on four,
on roads in Deutschland and the rest of Europe.

There`s also the difference in space. You can be in one country in Europe and take a day trip to another, one day, and a different one the next. Here, you may be able to get over to the next Province, or into the States.
If the entire U.S. had legal lane splitting, then we would be pressured to join them, much in the way that Northern European Countries, were over there. Also, most of the two-wheelers over there are low c.c. scooters with major weather protection. Not the over-sized monstrosities so common here.

You can complain about drivers here not being ready for the influx of bikes in March and April, but how many of those riders actually go out hit a parking lot every day for the first couple of months to get their riding back into shape?

Besides, not everywhere in Canada, has the mild winters of the G.T.A. Some of you need to get out more. :d

Oh, and I apologize, this isn't just aimed at you. :d
 
CafeRay said:
Yeah, write letters. Like that works. Maybe if some motorcycle company handed out envelopes of cash we could see this change.
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Anyone remember The Biker's Rights Organization (B.R.O.)? They actually used to get the attention of legislators sometimes when Marla Garber was alive. Most of their meetings were an excuse to drink beer and party. They seem to have disappeared for the most part:

BRO-logoT200.gif
 
The trouble with politicians is they like the stick and hate the carrot. It didn't take long for the newly elected lieberals to increase fines for distracted driving. It took approximately 20 years to get rid of the long gun registry and there is still a lot more components of the Firearm act that need to be changed. Canada is a nanny state with a bunch of whining special interest groups getting the attention of governments. Lane splitting , increased speeds, alcohol sales in private stores, legalize pot are just a few of the many issues that need to be dealt with. Getting it done is the problem. People do not get in the face of politicians enough.
 
nfq said:
Also: driver education. Day and night difference getting your license in North America vs EU.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I had to get the equivalent of a "M" rating on my Norwegian licence when I lived there (they didn't recognize my Ontario rating). Took a standard MC Training course. Very intense stuff. During the course, the parking lot maneuvers was a world-different than here; they taught skid and emergency braking techniques as a requirement. Instructor rises with you as a passenger which preps you for the exam. With the actual test, I had the examiner as a passenger on the back, barking commands into a two-way radio. Test ran 1+ hour in length.

Riding in Oslo, the drivers are very aware of motorcyclists filtering. Motorists keep an eye on the rearview mirror and all move to the side in their lane to provide room. I never encountered road rage against me in years of daily commutes into the City core.
 
Icbones said:
The trouble with politicians is they like the stick and hate the carrot. It didn't take long for the newly elected lieberals to increase fines for distracted driving. It took approximately 20 years to get rid of the long gun registry and there is still a lot more components of the Firearm act that need to be changed. Canada is a nanny state with a bunch of whining special interest groups getting the attention of governments. Lane splitting , increased speeds, alcohol sales in private stores, legalize pot are just a few of the many issues that need to be dealt with. Getting it done is the problem. People do not get in the face of politicians enough.
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100% agree. Not falling for the "free society" con-job anymore, we have stupid nanny-laws for everything.
 
Roadghost said:
100% agree. Not falling for the "free society" con-job anymore, we have stupid nanny-laws for everything.
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You know why?

cuz people are so concerned with what other people do so much so, that they make laws when enough ppl complain - how else do you shut ppl the hell up?

too many ppl 'street racing'? make a law that lets you slap tickets for crazy speed/agressive driving
too many accidents cuz ppl are on the phone? make a law to stop handheld use.

watch, when the unskilled lot of riders try lane splitting start banging into mirrors/doors etc, (and likely run), law against splitting will be strengthened.

People play both sides of the fence. when a rider, in a car, is hit by a splitter, who runs, will you stfu and say it's part of the game and let your insurance take the hit?

Not me. a big percentage of toronto riders demonstrate how careless they are, and how willing they are to run from the police.
 
JFD said:
You know why?

cuz people are so concerned with what other people do so much so, that they make laws when enough ppl complain - how else do you shut ppl the hell up?

too many ppl 'street racing'? make a law that lets you slap tickets for crazy speed/agressive driving
too many accidents cuz ppl are on the phone? make a law to stop handheld use.

watch, when the unskilled lot of riders try lane splitting start banging into mirrors/doors etc, (and likely run), law against splitting will be strengthened.

People play both sides of the fence. when a rider, in a car, is hit by a splitter, who runs, will you stfu and say it's part of the game and let your insurance take the hit?

Not me. a big percentage of toronto riders demonstrate how careless they are, and how willing they are to run from the police.
Click to expand...


I don't agree with what you are saying. I think most people most of the time drive well. Time after time I hear reports from the MOT saying Ontario roads are the safest in North America.

http://www.trucknews.com/health-saf...s-truck-related-fatalities-down-24/1000442827

The problem we have is that the Police, Politicians, and the Media are in a partnership to create Machiavellian laws with vindictive and financially crippling fines for an ever increasing number of offenses. Sure fines for distracted driving I agree with. BUT they must apply to every driver! Just tonite I was beside a transit security officer diddling with his computer while stopped at a red light. Cops in Toronto are staked out at intersections dressed as construction workers handing out $300+ tickets to John or Jane Q. public for checking their texts at a stoplight. Why the double standard? Street racing? WTF. It was based on an incident where a guy named Manchester was killed along with his wife by so called street racers. Turns out the idiot was 3x over the BAC legal limit and the "street racers" weren't really street racing.

http://www.wheels.ca/a-hard-look-at-the-street-racing-law/

Are ex Ontario Alcoholic Attorney General was grandstanding at one time with street racers cars being crushed in a photo op.

http://www.thestar.com/news/2007/06/21/province_will_crush_your_car_and_the_parts_racers_told.html

Well, guess what he ends up doing? Getting into a minor mix up with a cyclist, and because of his status thinks he can drag the guy around Bloor street risking other drivers and pedestrians up until the point the he peels the guy off the side of his car by hitting a mail box. Good old MB doesn't even need to go through the inconvenience of a trial. Mike just hires a PR firm (navigator) that holds a trial in the press.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/michael-bryants-spin-class/article4286381/


Lets relax a whole slew of laws in Canada so that the average guy is not fined and or jailed for doing the same things as cops and politicians that don't seem to have the same level of enforcement focused on them .
 
Really you can already split lanes in Ontario...I've been doing it this trip, I did it the last trip, and I'll do it the next trip...I may get a fail to drive in marked lane or pass on right ticket eventually, no big deal...small price to pay for being safer from rear end collisions and not joining the moron herd of traffic congestion.

Alarmists who say "oh you might get an HTA 172" - no, I won't. Lane splitting is not stunt driving, and if some punk officer decides to say it is, I'll be using up savings on a lawyer to make sure I get his badge along with my bike back.

I can see that the posers and pusscakes outnumber real riders in Ontario, so lane splitting will never be legalized...which is a shame, because it could help summer traffic in the GTA...get a few commuters seeing that they can legally opt out of the line by getting a motorcycle and all of a sudden a whole culture starts, and for every car turned into a lane splitting bike you reduce congestion.


-----

To the pusscakes I say this:

Don't ever try to say "oh because Ontario drivers do <x>, we can't lane split"

Ontario drivers and roads are perfect for splitting, lots of room, reasonably polite people (except in rush hour traffic where EVERYONE becomes angry, doesn't matter where you are in the world)

or

"It's just not safe!"

It IS safe, both in CA where I live and in ONT where I've been doing it everytime I come up for a visit, when it is done safely.

If you don't want it because you know you will never be a good enough rider to do it safely, that's fine, but don't try to BS people.
 
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Icbones said:
The trouble with politicians is they like the stick and hate the carrot. It didn't take long for the newly elected lieberals to increase fines for distracted driving. It took approximately 20 years to get rid of the long gun registry and there is still a lot more components of the Firearm act that need to be changed. Canada is a nanny state with a bunch of whining special interest groups getting the attention of governments. Lane splitting , increased speeds, alcohol sales in private stores, legalize pot are just a few of the many issues that need to be dealt with. Getting it done is the problem. People do not get in the face of politicians enough.
Click to expand...

Why do you live here? Move to the US. You get all the guns you want, and 100x the violent gun deaths. I don't understand why right wing gun nuts bother to live with us intellectual leftards when they can move to Florida.
As I understand it, many people with long guns tried to get in the face of politicians last week in Ottawa.
 
Icbones said:
I don't agree with what you are saying. I think most people most of the time drive well. Time after time I hear reports from the MOT saying Ontario roads are the safest in North America.

http://www.trucknews.com/health-saf...s-truck-related-fatalities-down-24/1000442827

The problem we have is that the Police, Politicians, and the Media are in a partnership to create Machiavellian laws with vindictive and financially crippling fines for an ever increasing number of offenses. Sure fines for distracted driving I agree with. BUT they must apply to every driver! Just tonite I was beside a transit security officer diddling with his computer while stopped at a red light. Cops in Toronto are staked out at intersections dressed as construction workers handing out $300+ tickets to John or Jane Q. public for checking their texts at a stoplight. Why the double standard? Street racing? WTF. It was based on an incident where a guy named Manchester was killed along with his wife by so called street racers. Turns out the idiot was 3x over the BAC legal limit and the "street racers" weren't really street racing.

http://www.wheels.ca/a-hard-look-at-the-street-racing-law/

Are ex Ontario Alcoholic Attorney General was grandstanding at one time with street racers cars being crushed in a photo op.

http://www.thestar.com/news/2007/06/21/province_will_crush_your_car_and_the_parts_racers_told.html

Well, guess what he ends up doing? Getting into a minor mix up with a cyclist, and because of his status thinks he can drag the guy around Bloor street risking other drivers and pedestrians up until the point the he peels the guy off the side of his car by hitting a mail box. Good old MB doesn't even need to go through the inconvenience of a trial. Mike just hires a PR firm (navigator) that holds a trial in the press.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/michael-bryants-spin-class/article4286381/


Lets relax a whole slew of laws in Canada so that the average guy is not fined and or jailed for doing the same things as cops and politicians that don't seem to have the same level of enforcement focused on them .
Click to expand...

After Michael Bryant was released for murdering that cyclist, a few years later he actually wrote a book about his alcoholism. I cannot believe he not only got off, but wrote a book about his alcoholism as a "disease" that deserved sympathy.
 
k193 said:
Really you can already split lanes in Ontario...I've been doing it this trip, I did it the last trip, and I'll do it the next trip...I may get a fail to drive in marked lane or pass on right ticket eventually, no big deal...small price to pay for being safer from rear end collisions and not joining the moron herd of traffic congestion.

Alarmists who say "oh you might get an HTA 172" - no, I won't. Lane splitting is not stunt driving, and if some punk officer decides to say it is, I'll be using up savings on a lawyer to make sure I get his badge along with my bike back.

I can see that the posers and pusscakes outnumber real riders in Ontario, so lane splitting will never be legalized...which is a shame, because it could help summer traffic in the GTA...get a few commuters seeing that they can legally opt out of the line by getting a motorcycle and all of a sudden a whole culture starts, and for every car turned into a lane splitting bike you reduce congestion.


-----

To the pusscakes I say this:

Don't ever try to say "oh because Ontario drivers do <x>, we can't lane split"

Ontario drivers and roads are perfect for splitting, lots of room, reasonably polite people (except in rush hour traffic where EVERYONE becomes angry, doesn't matter where you are in the world)

or

"It's just not safe!"

It IS safe, both in CA where I live and in ONT where I've been doing it everytime I come up for a visit, when it is done safely.

If you don't want it because you know you will never be a good enough rider to do it safely, that's fine, but don't try to BS people.
Click to expand...

It might get you a careless driving ticket though. While it may or may not stick in court you will have to spend $$$ to fight, unless you are brave, knowledgable(or stupid, thats argueable) enough to fight it yourself..either way good luck.

In all honesty I am a fan of lane splitting/filtering (safely) and if we only had to worry about other cars I would do it more often but once you have to worry about a sneak attack from an undercover then its game over..not worth it :(
 
k193 said:
I can see that the posers and pusscakes outnumber real riders in Ontario, so lane splitting will never be legalized...which is a shame, because it could help summer traffic in the GTA...get a few commuters seeing that they can legally opt out of the line by getting a motorcycle and all of a sudden a whole culture starts, and for every car turned into a lane splitting bike you reduce congestion.
Click to expand...

Pretty funny post (you're not serious, right?). 0.01% less vehicles in traffic won't change much. I somehow doubt Mrs. Wideload in her Dodge Caravan is going to give it all up, because if that worked, more people would take public transit.

The ideal thing to do would be a short term study for 2 summers on a single stretch of the 403 or 401 in a lane splitting zone. No pusscakes.

rainbow+cat+cake+front+side.JPG
 
k193 said:
It IS safe, both in CA where I live and in ONT where I've been doing it everytime I come up for a visit, when it is done safely.
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I agree wholeheartedly with k193. The only way to make change is to be the change. I lane split safely all the time. I am totally prepared to defend my riding practices in court.

In particular I've been lane splitting the Gardiner all year. I have had zero issues. 99.99% of drivers are courteous and will make room for me to pass. The other 0.01% honk out of jealousy, which I'm cool with, cause, you know, haters.
 
gadfly said:
I am totally prepared to defend my riding practices in court.
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While I applaud your enthusiasm being prepared doesn't mean much when what you're doing is illegal by the letter of the law. All means is lawyer and other costs and for what... to get through traffic a few minutes earlier?


The other 0.01% honk out of jealousy, which I'm cool with, cause, you know, haters.
Click to expand...

You realize the "haters" are driving a few thousand pounds of screw honking I'm just going to block him at the last second. Right or wrong you'd lose.

Despite k193/rossi greatest rider ever and his overwhelming few trips experience here, there are too many self entitled morons on the road for it to happen. That's got nothing to do with riding ability either. Too many people here suck at driving and even more don't pay attention as it is. Regular driving/riding in the gta is bad enough.
 
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My brother only just got a settlement from his accident in the UK as he was lane splitting and someone pulled out in front of him. It is still dangerous and even more so here with the lack of education and entitlement culture you see on the roads. Those that do it here ..fine. Go ahead, but you're rolling a loaded dice each time you do.
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