2014 Honda VFR800 OR Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS (not the 'R' Ninja).

CafeRay said:

Yes there is, actuarial data by the insurance industry showing that the Z1000 or sport-tourers like that have a significantly lower crash rate than super sports bikes of the same power.

They understand risk and stats in this industry -they scoop all the best math grads out of Universities.

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The Ninja 1000 is just as "dangerous" as any SS. The Z1000 is nearly physically identical to it, or at least it was before they added traction control to the Ninja 1000. Where there are differences, Z1000 is the sportier of the two!

I could list the differences for 2011:
-Fairing and windscreen
-Bigger airbox & gas tank on N1000
-Dash
-Handlebars

That was about it. Rake was identical, motor was identical (N1000 made a teeny tiny bit more power due to the airbox).

Ninja is a very cool bike. Met up with a VFR club state-side and swapped bikes. Smooth is what comes to mind. Nice fit & finish. I'd say I use but 60% of what the VFR can do. Beyond losing your license or more, both bikes will most likely exceed anything we can or should be doing on any road in North America.

VFR with helibars = ninja ergos.

I think it comes down to cost, insurance, and what get's you going.

The thing I always found amusing about the VFR800 (I've owned two)was that younger sportbike owners would tell me it was too heavy,too slow,too underpowered.Yet ,motorcycle journalist that ride for a living made it Motorcycle Of The Year when it first cam out.Freddie Spencer rode one exclusively at his race school for years while his students were mounted on supersports and superbikes of every description and still chose to ride that slow, heavy,underpowered bike.What do those guys know!

TwistedKestrel said:

The Ninja 1000 is just as "dangerous" as any SS. The Z1000 is nearly physically identical to it, or at least it was before they added traction control to the Ninja 1000. Where there are differences, Z1000 is the sportier of the two!
.

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There are no dangerous bikes.

There are dangerous riders. You can have the same engine and power in two different packages, and see huge differences in crash claim rates. The reality is that one type of rider is attracted to SS bikes, and the numbers show they crash more, make higher claims. This is tied to many factors, like the fact they tend to finance their bikes more, thus require more insurance, and thus tend to make more claims.

Rates are not arbitrary, there is data behind them. If for whatever reason a bunch of idiots get attracted to a new 250 and start wrecking them, , the rates will have to go up on that bike.

The reality is that sport touring bikes tend to attract older riders, who are are more risk averse.

Did anyone mention Burgman yet as the only good choice?

CafeRay said:

There are no dangerous bikes.

There are dangerous riders. You can have the same engine and power in two different packages, and see huge differences in crash claim rates. The reality is that one type of rider is attracted to SS bikes, and the numbers show they crash more, make higher claims. This is tied to many factors, like the fact they tend to finance their bikes more, thus require more insurance, and thus tend to make more claims.

Rates are not arbitrary, there is data behind them. If for whatever reason a bunch of idiots get attracted to a new 250 and start wrecking them, , the rates will have to go up on that bike.

The reality is that sport touring bikes tend to attract older riders, who are are more risk averse.

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If only it were possible to rate age independently

TD considers the N1000 as a sport tourer...at least they did for me.

The Tuono on the other hand they quoted me over $2g's for it when I was only paying $1,700 for my new GSXR750???

Was it the V4? Because that makes no sense to me.

BondJamesBond said:

I'd love to see a 30lb lighter vfr with 1000 cc, inverted front forks, multiple levels of traction control, a more upright seating position and all the rest of the bells & whistles it already has. That would be a no brainer for me if it had a competative price.

Who does Honda's customer surveys and panel sessions? They seem to have missed the mark.

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That's exactly the kind of VFR that many enthusiasts have been waiting for! So of course Honda will never build it, (-they never make what you want when you want it in my experience).

Anyway, there's a great comparison article in the latest Sport Rider between the Ninja and VFR. Basically, the VFR gets spanked in every category.

Personally, I wouldn't buy either one. I've ridden the Ninja 1000 and it just didn't inspire me, (-I felt the same about the gen. 2 FZ1 after riding it). On the FZ1 forum it's claimed that the bike really wakes up with some modding, so it's possible that the same thing is true for the Ninja, (-I personally like the style of the FZ much better, though). Although I haven't ridden the VFR800, it just doesn't have the power/torque I'm looking for, (especially for 2-up riding). I've read that its motor is a charmer, but charm can only get you so far...

Whatever you do, make sure to get a test ride on the bikes before you purchase. I rode a 2010 VFR1200 for an extended solo test ride and really liked it, (-despite its extra heft and questionable styling). Right now if I were in the market for a new bike that would be my sport-tourer of choice as the prices have come down.

* * *

There is another direction you could go in. Pick up a low-mileage first generation FZ1, freshen up the suspension and throw a pipe on it, (-the stock system is heavy!), and you'd be amazed by what a capable bike it is. It is "old tech," but I haven't found a new bike that I'd replace my 2002 FZ with yet. Maybe if Yamaha shoehorns a crossplane motor into the next one.....(?) You'd save thousands.

The first-gen FZ1 is definitely the best version.

Shaman said:

The first-gen FZ1 is definitely the best version.

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I agree, but I'm biased.

There are many ardent supporters of the second generation FZ1 out there...

The only issue the gen1 FZ1 has is it's wimpy alternator 360 amps.

PhoenixFZ said:

)On the FZ1 forum it's claimed that the bike really wakes up with some modding, so it's possible that the same thing is true for the Ninja

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I've ridden a 2nd Gen FZ1 with exhuast, PC, good dyno tune, etc and although better than stock it didn't inspire much. Getting back on my 1000 back to back to it was night and day power-wise.

I've only ever ridden a stock gen. 2 FZ1, and it had horrible stock tires, too.

But I'm sure even my modded gen.1 couldn't compare to a GSXR1000 power-wise, (my FZ has a full exhaust/jet-kit/airbox mods).