definition of running red light? | GTAMotorcycle.com

definition of running red light?

ironryder

ironryder

Well-known member
Hey all! Got a ticket for running red. Just like to know where my vehicle have to be when the light turn red? behind the stop line? behind the cross walk? or clear the intersection? i know i have enter the intersection on an amber, but is pointless to argue with a guy that got a gun.And google just gave me all these ticket fighting sites. Anyone fought it in court and know the legal definition ?
 
ironryder said:
Hey all! Got a ticket for running red. Just like to know where my vehicle have to be when the light turn red? behind the stop line? behind the cross walk? or clear the intersection? i know i have enter the intersection on an amber, but is pointless to argue with a guy that got a gun.And google just gave me all these ticket fighting sites. Anyone fought it in court and know the legal definition ?
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If there is a stop line, then you must stop behind it. ALL of your car must be behind it.
 
The section of the Highway Traffic Act will be written on the ticket. You can check the specific legal requirements here :http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/english/elaws_statutes_90h08_e.htm

Was it 144.18?

Red light (18) Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular red indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle and shall not proceed until a green indication is shown. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (18).

Sections 144.5 and .6 tell you where to stop:

Where to stop – intersection
(5) A driver who is directed by a traffic control signal erected at an intersection to stop his or her vehicle shall stop,
(a) at the sign or roadway marking indicating where the stop is to be made;
(b) if there is no sign or marking, immediately before entering the nearest crosswalk; or
(c) if there is no sign, marking or crosswalk, immediately before entering the intersection. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (5); 2006, c. 19, Sched. T, s. 6 (1).

Where to stop – non-intersection
(6) A driver who is directed by a traffic control signal erected at a location other than at an intersection to stop his or her vehicle shall stop,
(a) at the sign or roadway marking indicating where the stop is to be made;
(b) if there is no sign or marking, immediately before entering the nearest crosswalk; or
(c) if there is no sign, marking or crosswalk, not less than five metres before the nearest traffic control signal. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (6); 2006, c. 19, Sched. T, s. 6 (2).
 
I think he's asking at what point are you running a red, in relation to where your vehicle is in the intersection, when the the light changes from amber to red.
 
bocutter said:
I think he's asking at what point are you running a red in relation to where your vehicle is in the intersection.
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He mentioned the stop line. If you don't actually stop until you're past the stop line, you have then run the stop light or sign. As I already stated you are required to stop BEFORE that line. If your vision is blocked and you are making a right turn you can then edge forward and stop again, in order to make sure it is safe to complete your turn, but you MUST stop before the line.
 
The way I've always treated it is that no part of my car should occupy any part of the intersection at the time the light turns red. That means if you start crossing when it's yellow and it turns red midway through, then you ran the red light.
 
Many laws in the HTA are vague and open to interpretation. As a Driver Examiner the way that I looked at it was the way that fastar1 looks at it. If you enter the intersection on yellow, without accelerating you must be clear of the intersection prior to it turning red.

If you have someone tail-gating you that is a whole different situation. Now that the Police Officer laid the charge it is up to the interpretation of the Prosecutor.

Government keeps adding more and more laws to the HTA but spends little time clarifying the vagueness to help people out. Best of luck.
 
"Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular red indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle and shall not proceed until a green indication is shown."

If it's red, then you must stop. There's no mention of yellow, so if you were to enter on a yellow, it's ok to proceed. Most common occurrence of this is when you enter the intersection to turn left and are awaiting oncoming traffic to clear. Some intersections are special where there it is another offence to remain-in/block the intersection once it's turned red.
 
I was taught that your entire vehicle had to be past the stop point before the amber changed to red. This was back in the day when amber was for 6 seconds unlike today's 3 seconds. Don't know how that works for semi's or pulling a trailer.
 
ironryder, I think some clarification is in order. Were you moving and came up to an already red light, or were you moving and the light started to turn as you approached?

If the light turns amber then you must stop, if it is safe to do so. You cannot enter the intersection on the red, which is where my previous statement comes in. If you are beyond the stop line, at all, then you are in the intersection.
 
ironryder said:
... running red. Just like to know where my vehicle have to be when the light turn red? ... i know i have enter the intersection on an amber ...
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From the above snippets I gathered that he was moving through.
 
The way I understand it is the vehicle must be completely within the intersection before the light turns red.
A lady at work got nailed by a red light camera and the picture showed her rear tire on the white line entering the intersection.
I assume this means the drive vehicle. At least I imagine this would be the case for a tractor trailer.
 
what happen was that the light turn amber as i approach the stop line (intersection have both stop line and cross walk) so instead of jamming on the break i accelerated instead as there was no pedestrians on all sides nor car making a left. it was only a 50 zone and i was going maybe 40-45 as i approached and the light turn quickly so im pretty much in the middle of the intersection or just passed the cross walk after the stop line ( small 1 lane road with a parking lane and i was in my full pick up) the cop was parked about 3 parking spot deep on the opposite side(about 20 ft from intersection or so ) so if all i need to be is to have my truck pass the stop line/cross walk to be consider being in the intersection, i highly doubt that the cop could tell if i pass the stop line/cross walk from that far away. He was a lil prick as he approach my window and only his head made it to the window line cus he so dam short all angry as if i just committed the crime of the century.

Sections 144.5 and .6 tell you where to stop:

Where to stop – intersection
(5) A driver who is directed by a traffic control signal erected at an intersection to stop his or her vehicle shall stop,
(a) at the sign or roadway marking indicating where the stop is to be made;
(b) if there is no sign or marking, immediately before entering the nearest crosswalk; or
(c) if there is no sign, marking or crosswalk, immediately before entering the intersection. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (5); 2006, c. 19, Sched. T, s. 6 (1).

i gotta check what section of HTA is on the ticket when i get a chance, would 5a means the stop line? and if any part of my truck pass it before red would makes it ok? any lawyers on board ? lol
 
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Rob hit it dead on. Ask any officer, if you accelerated when you saw the yellow then you get a ticket. Their theory (right or wrong) is that you could of used the brake instead of the gas. Better to coast through and beg for mercy. You are done, baked, cooked. There can be no good answer to "Please explain to the Court why you accelerated when you saw the yellow light".
 
skapan said:
"Please explain to the Court why you accelerated when you saw the yellow light".
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Yup, that's a tough one to defend!

What I practice is I shouldn't be able to see the red light in my front windshield as I pass under it. If I do, and don't get a ticket, I consider myself lucky.
Better to have a bit of a buffer between what you consider fair play and what the cop considers an offence.
Besides, if you hit the brakes, you'll have pole position! :)
 
The way we looked at it when I was a copper, is that NONE of the vehicle is to be "in" the intersection when the light is red. If you enter when it is yellow and by the time your vehicle crosses a "plane" of the stop line or crosswalk on the other side of the intersection you didn't "enter the intersection in safety", (You didn't give yourself enough time to exit the intersection before the light turned red).
 
skapan said:
Rob hit it dead on. Ask any officer, if you accelerated when you saw the yellow then you get a ticket. Their theory (right or wrong) is that you could of used the brake instead of the gas. Better to coast through and beg for mercy. You are done, baked, cooked. There can be no good answer to "Please explain to the Court why you accelerated when you saw the yellow light".
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He said he was doing 40-45. So, to me, it depends where he was as the light turned yellow. If he was very close to the stop line as it turned yellow a little nudge on the gas to bring it up to 50 shouldn't matter to anyone. From the cops position, he might have heard an accelerating engine and got freaked out judging by his demeanor at the checkout window. Counter that with op massaging story in his favour and we have the makings of trial of the century.
 
ironryder said:
....i gotta check what section of HTA is on the ticket when i get a chance, would 5a means the stop line? and if any part of my truck pass it before red would makes it ok? any lawyers on board ? lol
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Caveat: IANAL. You probably got a 144.18 Fail to stop on your ticket. At trial, the P.O. will most likely testify that he saw the light turn red and then you crossed the stop line into the intersection. Did you make any statements during the stop that the P.O. may also have made note of and may also raise during his testimony? During a trial, questioning him as to where he was located, how he observed the signal and how he observed you crossing the stop line may help in your battle. Testifying yourself (i.e. you crossed the line on amber) is usually not recommended as you will open yourself to damning statements the prosecutor _will_ make you say during questioning. They have lots of experience at that and they get their bonus and advancement based upon wins n'est pas. For sure, the judge will have heard various excuses hundreds if not thousands of times and may not have any leniency even if you make a good case.
 
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