Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Motorcycles? | Page 2 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Motorcycles?

Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

I hate to tell you, your numbers might be correct but your understand of the industry is not. I work in this industry and I can confirm Amazon's posts. We make next to nothing of the sale of bikes: think $500 - $1000. Money can be made from a good service department, financing, and parts and accessories. But not in the quantities you're thinking about.

What do you base that on? Is it the fact that they tell you and it says in the computer that model x bike cost that much.

Because a business owner does not want his or her employees to know what the cost of on item is.

They will give you a "cost figure"

1. To achieve a base price
2. To make public think they make jack

If you knew the real price..then if you ever lose your job , you can tell everyone... Then what happens to the market and the business.

I am not doubting you guys see a cost figure .. I am saying that figure they give sales reps even store managers is not true..

The "cost" of the bike is a figure much like the msrp


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

What do you base that on? Is it the fact that they tell you and it says in the computer that model x bike cost that much.

Because a business owner does not want his or her employees to know what the cost of on item is.

They will give you a "cost figure"

1. To achieve a base price
2. To make public think they make jack

If you knew the real price..then if you ever lose your job , you can tell everyone... Then what happens to the market and the business.

I am not doubting you guys see a cost figure .. I am saying that figure they give sales reps even store managers is not true..

The "cost" of the bike is a figure much like the msrp


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"

I can see exactly how much we paid for any given item. Our dealer cost (everyone gets a slightly different one based on purchasing), not manufacturing cost as that doesn't concern me. I have also seen exactly how much we have spent on vehicles to the penny, if I wanted I could tell you the cost of the new R3 coming out, but I won't 'cause that'd be a dick move even though we're not making anywhere near $1000 on each unit.

How much we (the dealer) pay for a given item is our cost.

They're not trying to keep it a secret from their employees
 
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Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

This is a pretty doppy thread, comparing luxury jewelry, high end luggage and bulk Chinese t shirts to the motorcycle industry. The manufactured cost makes so little difference in any business, in the middle sits the distributor on most items. They buy the container of Aria helmets and send them out in skid lots at the price the market will bear to dealers. Dealers get to buy bikes from whatever company is distributing , Honda Canada, Yamaha Canada whomever, since the distributor holds the vast collection of parts and pieces. To think a salesmanager doesn't know to the penny the costing on any item is just nutty, its not a retail shop like a best buy.
 
Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

What do you base that on? Is it the fact that they tell you and it says in the computer that model x bike cost that much.

Because a business owner does not want his or her employees to know what the cost of on item is.

They will give you a "cost figure"

1. To achieve a base price
2. To make public think they make jack

If you knew the real price..then if you ever lose your job , you can tell everyone... Then what happens to the market and the business.

I am not doubting you guys see a cost figure .. I am saying that figure they give sales reps even store managers is not true..

The "cost" of the bike is a figure much like the msrp


"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"

See Amazon's comments as well. There are many instances in sales where what you are fearing, is true. The "employee pricing... invoice pricing" etc promotions are not outright lies, but they are a little deceiving. Another thing to keep in mind is that the head offices of manufacturers around the world purchase the major units from the factory, and then resell them to us at the dealer level. In the case of Yamaha, Yamaha Motor Canada and Yamaha Motor US are actually different companies that compete for many of the same customers. Each of the national/regional head offices make individual decisions about the units they will carry, accessories available and colours etc. Dealers do not buy directly from the manufacturer, so our costs per unit are not as low as you think.

This is a pretty doppy thread, comparing luxury jewelry, high end luggage and bulk Chinese t shirts to the motorcycle industry. The manufactured cost makes so little difference in any business, in the middle sits the distributor on most items. They buy the container of Aria helmets and send them out in skid lots at the price the market will bear to dealers. Dealers get to buy bikes from whatever company is distributing , Honda Canada, Yamaha Canada whomever, since the distributor holds the vast collection of parts and pieces. To think a salesmanager doesn't know to the penny the costing on any item is just nutty, its not a retail shop like a best buy.

True, however the thread does serve to educate the average buyer about industry at a different level. What the (potential) buyers choose to do with that information is up to them.

I can see exactly how much we paid for any given item. Our dealer cost (everyone gets a slightly different one based on purchasing), not manufacturing cost as that doesn't concern me. I have also seen exactly how much we have spent on vehicles to the penny, if I wanted I could tell you the cost of the new R3 coming out, but I won't 'cause that'd be a dick move even though we're not making anywhere near $1000 on each unit.

How much we (the dealer) pay for a given item is our cost.

They're not trying to keep it a secret from their employees

Agree.
 
Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

OK... so I'm trying to take it all in.... clearly lots of view points. I believe a dealership deserves to make a profit. It's fair and I'm not looking to screw anyone. Based on nothing but my own gut feeling, I think if a dealer makes 3-5% from me on the sale of a new bike and then continues to see service, parts and accessories purchases from me, we've entered into a good relationship. It's the 'trust' factor that seems to be missing. The dealer thinks the buyer wants something for nothing and the buyer mistrusts the dealer. Perhaps a better question, how to break the mistrust? I say 'open co-mono' would work especially for those customers that truly want to buy new and will come back for more.
 
Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

OK... so I'm trying to take it all in.... clearly lots of view points. I believe a dealership deserves to make a profit. It's fair and I'm not looking to screw anyone. Based on nothing but my own gut feeling, I think if a dealer makes 3-5% from me on the sale of a new bike and then continues to see service, parts and accessories purchases from me, we've entered into a good relationship. It's the 'trust' factor that seems to be missing. The dealer thinks the buyer wants something for nothing and the buyer mistrusts the dealer. Perhaps a better question, how to break the mistrust? I say 'open co-mono' would work especially for those customers that truly want to buy new and will come back for more.

Honesty. If a dealership can provide good perceived value for your dollars (whether sale price, accessories, service...) it can build that relationship. If you don't trust them, or think they are being slimy, than nothing they do will bridge that gap. From the dealership point of view, the initial sale of the unit is (and should be) only a minor part of the sales relationship. I have had many bad experiences at dealerships (on both sides of the desk), and "gut feeling" counts for more than most people admit. This industry can be strange, for example, we have customers that will drive 2-3 hours one way to buy a bike (atv, sled etc) to save $250. By my math that doesn't make sense, but to those customers they feel they are getting better value.

None of the opinions expressed about dealerships are wrong. They all have some merit to the holder of those opinions. Including the people who refer to us as "stealer-ships", I may not agree but something happened in the past to colour their responses that way.
 
Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

I think the root of the problems is the low margin on new vehicles. No one else (selling non-commodity goods) would court customers, order the product, inspect, deliver, etc. for less than a 10% margin. This creates a situation where the dealership relies on the service department to make all of their money. This keeps me from going to a dealer for service (as their prices are much higher than skilled independent mechanics). If the margin went up on the vehicle and service prices came down, I would be much more likely to let them have my service dollars too. As it is, they get my 3% and never see me again, this isn't a great relationship for either party.

The manufacturers require so much from the dealers (ie. VW required separate buildings for VW/AUDI dealerships and provided a deadline to make the changes, indoor showrooms are huge, etc.) that they whole system may fall apart. I am thinking of Tesla's footprint in the GTA (one store in a mall) vs. other brands (dozens of huge dealerships for each brand) vs the number of cars I see. Sure there are fewer Tesla's, but given that they only sell a single premium model, I expect that. In the states, the dealerships/auto makers are pushing hard to prop up the dealership model, but it is a broken model.

This may be like the early days of the iphone vs. rim, the incumbent holds on expecting the new system to fail and they get blown out of the water (maybe to eventually recover, but it is a painful process to endure).

The brick figured out years ago that you put one of each thing on display and deliver from a warehouse, car dealerships should become the same, a small lot with one of each car and a service centre. When you purchase the car, it shows up the next day from a central location (servicing the entire GTA). This breaks the current model of driving up sales by forcing them onto dealer lots (which ultimately only damages the company, but who cares as long as everyone collects performance bonuses along the way :/).
 
Re: Where to find Motorcycle invoice prices? Is there a Car Cost Canada for Moto...

The Tesla system is very interesting, as they don't have dealers per say. They have "showrooms" and sell directly from the manufacturer. It's an interesting concept and I can see the benefits from a market standpoint. Might be difficult to implement in Ontario, to have one central showroom and satellite sales facilities with no (limited) display models, not sure if the average consumer would accept that.

There are many very talented technicians out there, and not all of them are at a dealership (and vice versa). Some of the manufacturer specific tool requirements can be very cost prohibitive for a smaller shop to stay current, especially the computer systems that aren't even available outside of the dealership. I am not sure what the long term future of our industry is, as there are many issues at hand that will have to be balanced: MTO, College of Trades, and what the consumer ultimately will pay for. I have heard that the College of Trades has been cracking down on shops who are not accredited properly (or at all) and even the back-yarders, but I have yet to see any results posted.

The performance based pay system is another can of worms in my mind, as any flat rate system seems to breed a poor quality of work. There are ways to modify the system (split rate: base plus performance etc), but I don't like the idea of technicians working for their bonus, as opposed to quality first. You raise some interesting ideas that I will have to consider though.
 

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