Are some ABS systems better than others? TC too? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Are some ABS systems better than others? TC too?

koma

koma

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I'm trying to pick my next bike and I realized I want to get something with ABS. After a bit of reading it seems like different manufacturers use slightly different ABS systems. I heard the old ones pulsate in the lever, wheres the newer ones are better.

Anyone have some insight? Should I stick with x/y/z brand? Since it's my *** on the line I might as well get one of the better ABS systems. I know TC isn't too common yet, but I would think a similar question applies.

Thanks.
 
YES, they are different. The tech is advancing so quickly that your best bet is to find owner's forums for the specific bike that you are looking for, and see what people say about them. The general pattern is that the newer systems are better and the systems used on premium models (BMW S1000R, Kaw ZX10R, etc) are better than the systems you will find on run-of-the-mill models (CBR250, SV650, older BMW, etc).

What are you going to be using it for? Street bike? A lot of the improvements are related to track use. The older systems might pulse when activated but that doesn't stop them from saving your bacon ...
 
Brian P said:
YES, they are different. The tech is advancing so quickly that your best bet is to find owner's forums for the specific bike that you are looking for, and see what people say about them. The general pattern is that the newer systems are better and the systems used on premium models (BMW S1000R, Kaw ZX10R, etc) are better than the systems you will find on run-of-the-mill models (CBR250, SV650, older BMW, etc).

What are you going to be using it for? Street bike? A lot of the improvements are related to track use. The older systems might pulse when activated but that doesn't stop them from saving your bacon ...
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Thanks for the info, I'll do some sleuthing. Yes, for a street bike. I've heard lots of good things about the electronics on the S1000 bikes but I'm hoping something similarly sophisticated can be found on something more affordable and less powerful.
 
My ABS works fine on my 2014 Honda CTX700 and 2014 CBR650F.
Not sure who makes it or really matters, as long as it does the job:)
 
I've been wondering about the ABS on my CBR500 too. Even if I'm not breaking all that hard(maybe 80%) it still pulsates. Does that mean that there is actual slippage occurring? Cause the rear is nowhere near lifting off so there must be more breaking power. Or is my single disk brake just not all that strong?

I was under the impression that if you do gradual breaking on a good, dry surface then your front should never slip. You should be able to do an endo if you apply too much brake. Is that not the case?
 
wait till you come across in your research about the dreaded ABS "brake release".

Common across many makes and brands from harley to suzuki to honda to BMW.

Basically, when you hit a bump(s) under heavy braking, the bike releases the brakes shooting you forward even though you are pulling hard on the levers.

Quite frightening if you've ever experienced it without fully expecting it.

(the solution to this problem is to release the lever quickly and apply again.)
 
I found even on cars they vary. The ABS on my 2001 Jetta was great. On my 2009 WRX if the ABS kicked in it meant the thing was never going to stop. Well, maybe within 3x the distance you would if you used threshold braking.
 
For a bike ABS provides stability and control. Not necessarily shorter stopping distances.

No all ABS systems are created equal in the same manner as the braking system themselves. The rotors, callipers, pads, lines and master cylinder. Each component functions differently depending on the bike and specs.

IMO, you just have to learn what the bike is capable of in a private area under various conditions to anticipate what it will do in an emergency. Then ride it accordingly.
 
SunnY S said:
wait till you come across in your research about the dreaded ABS "brake release".

Common across many makes and brands from harley to suzuki to honda to BMW.

Basically, when you hit a bump(s) under heavy braking, the bike releases the brakes shooting you forward even though you are pulling hard on the levers.

Quite frightening if you've ever experienced it without fully expecting it.

(the solution to this problem is to release the lever quickly and apply again.)
Click to expand...

Never had that happen on my CBR250RA or my CBR650F. I think it was more an issue of older systems, plus in all honesty I think I've felt ABS kick on maybe 2-3 times over the last 2 3/4 years riding. 99.9% of the time I either don't need to brake hard enough to need it or just brake to the threshold limit.
 
ABS cannot be compared across bikes that have different geometry, rotors, calipers and tires.
Brake release is the ABS working properly, the bouncing wheel is losing traction when it comes off the pavement. This is not an ABS problem, it's a fork problem and improper preload or undersprung fork for rider weight.
No one can stop a bike shorter and safer on cold road, wet road, or slippery road unless they are a physiological miracle that has a feedback neuronal loop faster than the ABS computer.

However, it is important to periodically check to make sure the ABS is actually functioning. Walking speed on gravel.

As for brands, there have been some worrisome Nissin recalls for calipers, but not ABS.

ABS recalls are rare, the most recent was the 2013 Ninja 300.

BMW so far has the only cornering ABS system, which varies ABS effect by lean angle and speed.
 
CafeRay said:
However, it is important to periodically check to make sure the ABS is actually functioning. Walking speed on gravel.
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As far as I'm aware there are several models that have ABS disabled below a certain speed. I believe the 650R was one of them but I might be mistaken.
 
unL33T said:
As far as I'm aware there are several models that have ABS disabled below a certain speed. I believe the 650R was one of them but I might be mistaken.
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That kinda makes no sense, as you brake , your speed is approaching zero, and just above zero is where ABS comes in.
 
CafeRay said:
That kinda makes no sense, as you brake , your speed is approaching zero, and just above zero is where ABS comes in.
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Good point. I'll have to look into that.
 
No, it does make sense. The consequences of a locked front wheel at 50 km/h is you fall down, the consequences of a locked front wheel at 5 km/h is that you stop.

The above post indicates that you don't know how ABS functions. The computer watches wheel speed and calculates wheel deceleration from that, and it's also monitoring actual vehicle deceleration. It doesn't wait for the wheel to actually lock before releasing the brake. If it establishes that the wheel is decelerating some threshold faster than actual vehicle deceleration or the wheel speed is some threshold below what it "should" be based on actual vehicle deceleration, (i.e. it's starting to lock up, but hasn't actually stopped yet), it relieves brake pressure and confirms that the wheel re-accelerates. When the wheel stops re-accelerating it means it has "caught up" to the actual vehicle speed and then it re-applies brake pressure. That's a simplified explanation. The old ABS systems were only capable of selecting between whatever brake pressure you were applying, and zero (i.e. brakes "on" or "off"). The newer systems are capable of modulating the brake pressure anywhere between zero and the pressure that you are applying, and they are capable of holding the wheel speed at some threshold amount of slip relative to its calculated vehicle speed. The result is less chattering and pulsation, and it makes better use of available traction.

Below some very low speed (say 5 km/h or so), ABS no longer serves a purpose, because with anywhere near normal traction, you are about a tenth of a second away from stopping anyhow.
 
unL33T said:
As far as I'm aware there are several models that have ABS disabled below a certain speed. I believe the 650R was one of them but I might be mistaken.
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IIRC correctly CBR250R is inactive below 10 km/h. I was on a buddies bike so I didn't want to grab a mitt full of brakes to see if that was right or not.
 
GreyGhost said:
IIRC correctly CBR250R is inactive below 10 km/h. I was on a buddies bike so I didn't want to grab a mitt full of brakes to see if that was right or not.
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Yup As with my 600RR, I think all Honda bikes that have ABS follow this rule.
 
CafeRay said:
BMW so far has the only cornering ABS system, which varies ABS effect by lean angle and speed.
Click to expand...

I believe Aprilia's ABS does the exact same thing. If I remember correctly the only difference between these two bikes brake system is that BMW applies both brakes when you pull front brake lever. I wish my Tuono had the Brembo that S1K R has, the best front brake IMO.
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