For Those With Children That About to Ride....

Each parent will have to decide how they will raise their child, teach their child, and how much risk they will expose their child to, based on their experiences and information they have at hand. This means they will have to decide whether it be car/bicycle before motorcycle, dirt before street, or no riding motorcycles until the child leaves their house, etc.

As a youth, the best experience I had to prepare me for riding motorcycles on the streets was riding a bicycle in downtown Toronto. I was even a bike courier for a while in my teens. Navigating the streets with the smallest, most invisible vehicle you learn to watch your six at all times and learn to respect the fact that a 3000 pound steel gas propelled vehicle is not to be taken lightly.

I have had my son riding bicycle with me on downtown streets, regardless if there are bicycle lanes present or not, since he was 8 years old. He now has a respect for the road, traffic laws, and larger vehicles because of the experience he has under his belt. This year my son, who is now 10, started on a smaller, low powered dirt bike and is starting to learn riding techniques that will translate well to riding a motorcycle on the streets if he should decide to pursue that when he is of age.

I feel that the more we can do to prepare our child for challenges ahead, the better. It does not mean **** won't happen, but hopefully if it does they will have the skills necessary to handle it.

I don't think it's an either or.

For the street, drivers ed and mastering defensive driving skills and navigating in the safety of a cage will yield benefits.

I'd rather have my kids learn driving in the streets with the added safety benefits of a cage. Even considering a panic stop or something doesn't necessarily result in a dropped bike or injury. A bike is less forgiving.

Learning how to operate the controls and ride in the dirt with safety equipment will help hone skills some skills.

I've tumbled in the dirt. Washed out the front end going into a turn too quick. I've gone over the handle bars and I learned not to panic when the bike gets loose.

So I think the key is balance.

As they learn to interact with traffic and dealing with other drivers they can also learn the riding dynamics of a motorcycle before they hit the streets on a bike.

Will I ever feel confident about my kids riding? Properly not. It's a jungle out there.

MacDoc said:

Don't think a cage does a thing.

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Except for the fact that if you **** up in a car, you're less likely to get killed than if you were to **** up on a bike if you're new to the roads. Riding your bicycle on the road is nothing like doing 60 kilometres plus on a regular basis. There's a lot of sense-perception you have yet to build from strictly riding a bicycle on the roads. I know because I used to do that as well. And the moment I stepped into a car everything was moving really fast around me including myself in comparison to the road bike.

I didn't start on dirt but then again I have a natural tendency to pick up things quickly so I didn't need to. I taught myself how to play 3 separate instruments as an example among many others.


Further, I didn't say don't do the off road riding. I said drive a car for a year whilst riding off road this way once the two meet you will have the skills of each on either hand to refer to.

Please don't tell me you actually think that the person who strictly does dirt and moves to the road will be better off than the person who drives a car for a year and does track in the off time...

Edit: and no I don't have kids either, but I was that age 4.5 years ago and I vividly remember the mistakes I made in my first year of driving and if those would have happened on a motorcycle I would be dead. So clearly I have some sort of insight to this thread which makes that comment irrelevant. Mind you if you're old enough to have kids, chances are your memories of the road and how it was back then are MUCH different than the way they are now. Or so I'm told by my parents. Therefore perhaps your memory of the road when you were 16 is inadequate in comparison to mine as a 16 year old kid on roads that I was on 4.5 years ago whereas your memory stems from 20 plus years ago...

Boots said:

Please don't tell me you actually think that the person who strictly does dirt and moves to the road will be better off than the person who drives a car for a year and does track in the off time...

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Who is to say who will do "better"? It will depend on many things, including the persons ability to learn the required skills to operate said vehicle, their natural abilities, their ability to check their ego at the door, and of course, good fortune.

SLaP said:

Who is to say who will do "better"? It will depend on many things, including the persons ability to learn the required skills to operate said vehicle, their natural abilities, their ability to check their ego at the door, and of course, good fortune.

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My point exactly, so is the person with experience in the car for a year more inclined to excel in your afformentioned qualities in comparison to the person who went on the road strictly after only riding dirt? I'd argue yes. And if you argue no, well that's your opinion. And if you just keep saying no and I keep saying yes then we're going back and forth in an absurd manner. I'm not going to do that. I've put some thought into my argument (not saying you havent) so it's not an idea that's out of the ordinary by any means.

Except theory is fine....doesn't compare with experience.

Experenced riders know a dirt background improves their riding skills and move their kids in that direction.
Kids are in the street as bicyclists from early on and that translates easily to riding a small licenced bike and then moving up.
If you read the the thread linked you'll see how important bicycle skills are in the transition to motorcycle skills.

IMNSHO and based on experience, bicycling and dirt riding makes for good riders.
Cage does little.....you might learn to drive, it doesn't teach you to ride.
Besides - teens on bicycles are healthier, more fit and active all of which are good as a motorcycle riding base.

I started riding when I was 16, got my car and bike license the very morning and started driving a car right after that and had a bike a few months later (Yamaha 400). I never felt uncomfortable on the road, I seemed to pick up driving pretty quickly, while a few friends were very cautious and jittery. I think that plays a big part, if you are nervous on the road you are more likely to make a rash decision that could end badly. I think trail riding would be good, but only for knowing how to ride a bike, which I think is very important. Understand completely the clutch, breaks, throttle, etc. When you don't have to think about what you are doing while riding a bike, well you are a step up as you can now completely focus on the road.

The motorcycle safety courses are good, but it is just a weekend, I think you need a bit more time to really be able to ride a bike without thinking about the controls. Get out there and ride with your daughter in low traffic areas or out in the country.

i started riding when i was 6 on a yamaha 50cc two stroke (even mixing my own oil and gas) I started to drive a farm tractor with equipment on the back when I was 10. When I turned 16 (took the day off from school on my bday in dec at the mto) I had my Beginners for 4 months before getting my full g. Bike license came in the spring and I was only a Beginner for a 1.5m before getting my full m. oh have the times changed.

MacDoc said:

Except theory is fine....doesn't compare with experience.

Experenced riders know a dirt background improves their riding skills and move their kids in that direction.
Kids are in the street as bicyclists from early on and that translates easily to riding a small licenced bike and then moving up.
If you read the the thread linked you'll see how important bicycle skills are in the transition to motorcycle skills.

IMNSHO and based on experience, bicycling and dirt riding makes for good riders.
Cage does little.....you might learn to drive, it doesn't teach you to ride.
Besides - teens on bicycles are healthier, more fit and active all of which are good as a motorcycle riding base.

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Point me to which post where I said get in a car to learn how to ride. I said get into a car to understand the road. The signs, being in traffic, following distances, other driver's habits, road etiquette, the roads themselves (directions, major intersections etc), emergency situations, hell take a drivers ed course or two since the motorcycling courses certainly don't cover this. The list goes on and on. Nowhere did I say for him to get their child into a car so they learn how to ride. That doesn't even make sense. I said, get them in a car so they can familiarize themselves with the afformenetioned aspects involved in driving. Whether you're riding or driving you share something in common, you use the PUBLIC ROADWAYS. Sure their bicycle experience familiarizes them with this roadway slightly, but on a bicycle, you are not travelling the speed of traffic, ergo going from bicycle to car is like an other-worldly transition. Further, I stated how one is less prone to be seriously injured as a new rider in a car than on a bike in the event that they make an error on any of the public roadways. HENCE, why I argue that it is good to drive for a year and ride dirt on one's off time.

I have 0 idea what you're rambling on about, but I'd say about 1% of your post has covered anything I said in mine. Most of it is just misunderstanding my points which I have highlighted 3 times now so there's no reason why you should make any mistakes now.

I learned how to ride when I was 12 on 100 cc two strokes engine bike without clutch. A year later I wanted to learn how to ride a motorcycle with clutch so I stole my Dad's motorcycle whenever he was out of town and asked my friend to teach me. When he finally found out that I had been riding his bike he just smile and told me to be careful and not riding on the busy street. My Dad was a mechanic when he was younger and he enjoyed having me sit next to him while he was fixing his motorcycle even though I prefered to play with other kids at that time.

I have always enjoy riding since I was a kid and developed my skills mostly on my BMX. Love to slide my rear tire before entering the corner and leaned as if I was riding a sportbike. I guess I watched too much GP 500 when I was still on a bicycle and as a result fell off my bike so many times trying to mimic what Wayne Rainey did on his Yamaha at that time I know it was stupid but it was a lot of fun, very different from what kids nowaday do.

Started riding fulltime when I was in university, traffic back home was a lot worse than here in Toronto. No traffic laws or whatsoever, it's basically a jungle there with anybody could do whatever they want on the road. I had my share of doing stupid things on a motorcycle but my skills on a bicycle really saved my life. Thanks to my riding/driving experience back home I find that driving/riding here is surprisingly easier and safer too.

I noticed one big difference between drivers/riders here and the one back home is that most people here drive like a robot without any skills nor awareness. So we just need one person to be careless and big accident happens. On the other hand most drivers back home need a certain level of skills just to get them from A to B and after a few years of experience they will develop some kind of instinct to sense if an accident is about to happen in the next second or two. They were very aware of the traffic situation that changed every second which made driving a very exhausting task to do.

Like somebody here in the forum said that you can buy skills but you can't buy experiences. Unfortunately we need both to survive on a motorcycle and sometimes learn the hard way is the only way to gain experience

While I don't have children, I am a car / bike enthusiast. Over the last 10 years what I have done is put a lot of money and time into my own training. What I've noticed is I'm a much better rider / driver because of it. This keeps me safe and gives me the opportunity to take my car and bike to the limits that I'm comfortable with under controlled environments. It definitely gives you many more options and skills when it comes to driving on the street. What I'd suggest with anyone that wants to get their children / or even them selves into motorsports of any kind is to invest in your training. You'd invest in your child's education for a career. You should invest in your child's driving / riding skills as they will use these skills everyday. When I do have kids I will fore sure be putting them through some advanced driving classes for sure when it's time for them to learn how to drive.

I'm 17 and ride a 250. First season and I got my m2 before my g2. My dad rides so he would follow me home the first couple days I started riding. He wouldn't let me ride at night for a couple weeks until I gained more experience. We used to go out to KC L&L and wood bridge together so I could get that riding experience and night. Whenever I was riding alone my family would be like text me when u get there lol I know the consequences of riding but I enjoy it to much to stop. I've had many close calls so I put a camera on my helmet for insurance and accident safety just in case some **** trys to blame me. If u let her get a bike ride together and help her gain that experience like my dad did with me. Aside from yelling at each other from our helmets I enjoyed the bonding. Its a lot of fun riding together. I paid for everything myself.

I think I'm the youngest rider out there. Change that lol I go to KC and people are like holy **** how old are you hahahah

If she gets a bike ride everywhere with her to build experience. It'll be fun for u both.

KC tonight then wood bridge with my dad. always enjoy riding with him

Ride safe!

Good post and it is indeed a great cross gen sharing.
We shared more on the dirt side then kid did the 50 cc, 250 cc etc on his own ( he'd bicycled the roads and still does ).
Now with him on a FX-08 he generally will go where ever tho he's not yet much into the long tours.

Scala's are great things - good suggestion for the OP.

My very experienced off road partner in Aus nurse maided me through cyclone debris riding behind me on what was normally an easy trail.
Some of the commentary was pretty funny ...especially when he dumped his for the first time since I've known him.
To be fair he was riding his nephew's bike nowhere near as good as his own.

But I was pleased I made it on the KLR

Great tip on the comm units...good post.

BTW, my kid is into real motorcycles so, I don't have to worry about her wanting to take the HD out because it's an old man's bike. lol. Anyways, we go for her G1 later this month. The M1/M2 will likely follow in the spring with RTI or something like that.

Dude, do not let your daughter near an HD product. She'll put on 65lbs and people will start expecting her to flash boobies at a picnic. That's not what we want for our daughters. Daughter rule #1, keep them off the pole.

crankcall said:

Dude, do not let your daughter near an HD product. She'll put on 65lbs and people will start expecting her to flash boobies at a picnic. That's not what we want for our daughters. Daughter rule #1, keep them off the pole.

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Meh, then she'll end up on one of those Scarborough rides in a bikini on an R1 or something????


And just to high jack my own thread, here is a vid of a young lady on an HD. ummm.....it's all marketing folks. lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVohOJ2GmoY

Easy when they set it all up for ya....and it's just a burnout. ..and what's with the blacked out face shield? ...you'd think they would want to show her face.

Geez what a pile of crap...you guys make it sound like "skills" are the danger on motorcycling...the danger in young riders is doing stupid things. I don't know of any actual racers that would ride like some of these idiots of 600 supersports in heavy highway traffic.
You cannot teach "don't be stupid", even on a dirt bike.

My parents never showed concern for me riding fast bikes at 17. There are teens who think, and those that risk and don't think. Training will not fix that.

CafeRay said:

Geez what a pile of crap...you guys make it sound like "skills" are the danger on motorcycling...the danger in young riders is doing stupid things. I don't know of any actual racers that would ride like some of these idiots of 600 supersports in heavy highway traffic.
You cannot teach "don't be stupid", even on a dirt bike.

My parents never showed concern for me riding fast bikes at 17. There are teens who think, and those that risk and don't think. Training will not fix that.

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Ray,


I'm with you to a point. Bikes don't have bumpers and the roads, the traffic and the drivers have made for a very challenging place.

I got my licence and the first thing my mom did was toss me the keys and I was gone.


Now? I'm not so sure. I drive almost 100k in the cage a year and then another 15k or so between the bikes and see a lot. And I have to be ready for numb skulls all the time........a kid having a decent head on their shoulders goes a long way but, they still need to navigate through the jungle out there.

Not sure I agree.
A ) training, especially off road will get the "yah it hurts when you come off" ground in.

b) might save a situation where the bike gets unsorted and the rider panics and hits the wrong brake in the wrong way.

The biggest issue is sane regions don't allow 17 year olds access to high powered bikes....cuz kids ( and I was ) will be stupid...but we did most stupid off road....tho the QEW in a bathing suit and sunglasses on the Yammie 250 with a bit of a buzz on likely counts as stupid.....different times.

Europe, Japan, Australia all restrict young and/or inexperienced riders to lower powered machines ( yeah you can kill yourself on a bicycle if you are really stupid but lets lessen the 200 kph temptation.

I agree you cannot train common sense but off road teaches that some of the consequences hurt and in addition how avoid some of the consequences and that gear is a REALLY good idea.

I don't think a rider learns a damn thing about that driving a car. If anything it makes them too comfortable in traffic instead driving home the vulnerability out there.

Even 50 years on surrounded by trucks at 80 mph on 77 in the rain .......brain is going WTF are you DOING!!!
Having fun...oh yeah.

You know that if a dealer selling an SS bike to a noob had the same liability as the bar serving drinks......things would change right quick.....same should go for the insurance company that insures one.
Sane jurisdictions simply don't allow it....and it would be cheaper for us to ride as it is in Australia ( half or less than here )

Sure there are work arounds but it's one more barrier to irresponsible access to high powered bikes.