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Another deadly crash

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As much as speed does kill when an accident happens I still think people being unware, or simply not caring to look, and either not knowing or ignoring right of way, is more of a root cause of most accidents than speed is.

I also do not agree with banning passengers from SS bikes. The type of bike makes no difference. A 'busa is considered a sport touring bike by some insurance companies and that thing will go insane speeds. Even a VFR will accelerate pretty damn fast. Heck, a 650R almost keeps up with a ZX6R until you get above about 100 kph.

I would support ad campaigns showing the benefits of safety gear and what can happen without it, kind of like PSA's about seatbelt use and anti-drunk driving. I feel like a lot of women on the back of bikes, wearing next to nothing, are simply ignorant of what the risks are.
 
unL33T said:
Based on my own experience riding/driving in Toronto, as much as cagers pull all kinds of unsafe, stupid maneuvers, I see riders almost every day that I think will likely be in the hospital soon, based on their riding.
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Yup.
 
CafeRay said:
You need to educate yourself and realize that in the majority of the high fatalities this season, the riders were either described as outright speeding or "erratic" in driving. Look at that car, this guy, with his pillion, was going way too fast. Fast enough to kill them both and destroy a car, on a city road.

Other reports mention he was on the shoulder. This was not an "accident", this was negligent riding. I know that area, and in the evening, it is ripe with f***tards on SS bikes competing for the Darwin award.

You want to live past 22? Then don't assume that cars are the problem. Any study on traffic safety in the last 30 years will tell you that speed difference is what kills, not outright speed. If you accelerate in traffic at twice the pace, then you are invisible half the time drivers typically scan their mirrors. Try driving in a car with guys approaching at those speeds. i think a major problem in younger riders is that they don't drive a car enough.

"Cagers suck" is just another symptom of an epidemic in society of people refusing to take responsibility for their actions. We have nothing to stand on if we don't clean up our own acts first, but the stats from this deadly summer show loss of control and rider at-fault to be major contributions, so watch for insurance and MTO retributions.

I think motorcyclists need to really reconsider what is a road bike. When I was riding at 17-25, 50-75 hp was a big deal, now it's twice that or more, while on the same two wheels.
Japan does not care about rider safety, they will sell you anything to make money.

I think it's time for the MTO to get radical. Ban pillions on SS bikes, and even consider building a road track closer to the GTA, with a drag and stunt area under safety controls and training.
The best road riders you will ever see are the ones going and coming from a racetrack.
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Ya take it easy there, just cause some people aren't responsible enough doesn't mean we take EVERYONE'S rights away.

unL33T said:
As much as speed does kill when an accident happens I still think people being unware, or simply not caring to look, and either not knowing or ignoring right of way, is more of a root cause of most accidents than speed is.

I also do not agree with banning passengers from SS bikes. The type of bike makes no difference. A 'busa is considered a sport touring bike by some insurance companies and that thing will go insane speeds. Even a VFR will accelerate pretty damn fast. Heck, a 650R almost keeps up with a ZX6R until you get above about 100 kph.

I would support ad campaigns showing the benefits of safety gear and what can happen without it, kind of like PSA's about seatbelt use and anti-drunk driving. I feel like a lot of women on the back of bikes, wearing next to nothing, are simply ignorant of what the risks are.
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Thats a good suggestion
 
GreyGhost said:
pic of car from yahoo.ca

86e0472d9d1981c0b314321e7d34df02
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To see this occur on a city street is ridiculous. Sad that it happened but anyone doubting this was rider error due to speed, give your head a shake. That's a significant amount of damage. All with a passenger. :(
 
Gary said:
link please.
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Don't have one but my coworker had a naked TL1000 and when he upgraded to the busa his insurance dropped because the TL was a "sport" bike while the busa is "sport touring".

Unless they changed something recently.
 
Roomie said:
Can you insure them at more than td, sf or allstate? You can't with a true ss.
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Since Kingsway went belly up, I've only used the 3 you noted for my m/c's. I now have all my ins needs with Allstate. Saving far too much to move.

unL33T said:
Don't have one but my coworker had a naked TL1000 and when he upgraded to the busa his insurance dropped because the TL was a "sport" bike while the busa is "sport touring".

Unless they changed something recently.
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I went from a '08 GSX-R750 to a '09 Hayabusa. Ins went up a bit for the Busa. Sold it. Bought a '10 750. Ins went down. Sold it. Bought a '13 Busa. Ins went down some more. When I questioned Allstate about listing it as a "SS", I was asked: "Gary, it's a Hayabusa, is it not?".
Me: "ok, I give up".
Still I pay under $900 / yr, but I'm just wondering which ins co's list it as sport touring these days.

Sorry for thread hi-jack.
rip to the 2 that lost it last night.
Smiles on faces surely ensued at some point.
 
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Gary said:
Since Kingsway went belly up, I've only used the 3 you noted for my m/c's. I now have all my ins needs with Allstate. Saving far too much to move.



I went from a '08 GSX-R750 to a '09 Hayabusa. Ins went up a bit for the Busa. Sold it. Bought a '10 750. Ins went down. Sold it. Bought a '13 Busa. Ins went down some more. When I questioned Allstate about listing it as a "SS", I was asked: "Gary, it's a Hayabusa, is it not?".
Me: "ok, I give up".
Still I pay under $900 / yr, but I'm just wondering which ins co's list it as sport touring these days.
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I'm 90% sure he told me it was Allstate when I asked him about it last year but maybe I was wrong because a few people told me that wasn't their policy.
 
I think motorcyclists need to really reconsider what is a road bike. When I was riding at 17-25, 50-75 hp was a big deal, now it's twice that or more, while on the same two wheels.
Japan does not care about rider safety, they will sell you anything to make money.

I think it's time for the MTO to get radical. Ban pillions on SS bikes, and even consider building a road track closer to the GTA, with a drag and stunt area under safety controls and training.
The best road riders you will ever see are the ones going and coming from a racetrack.
Click to expand...

Japan as a society cares very much as they have strict limits on motorcycle power which is why they still have the 400/4 Vtech that meets their criteria.

This bike is also available in Australia for the same reason.
In Australia - you cannot ride anything above 48 HP ( cc is irrelevant ) without 2 or more years of riding including 3 months of supervised riding ( ie a full licenced rider on another bike or a car accompanying you ).

Then you take your road test.

Then after two years you can apply to full licence which is unlimited and requires another road test that is stricter.

My buddy who has been riding for decades could not ride my Honda ST1100 there.

As a result - liability insurance is way low. $236 per annum even on the ST1100 which was converted to single seat.
Double that if the pillion seat is still attached and there are rear foot pegs.

Europe is the same way with HP restrictions to 48 on learner class machines.
Yamaha was smart with one of their latest bikes that were restricted to that power and then when the rider meets the requirements a mechanic can remove the restriction and it goes to 75 HP.

That's one reason you are seeing some of these great midrange machines like the CB500x - actually the whole CB500 series - to meet those restrictions.

Here.....everyone plays through the nose to cater to idiotic government policies allowing anyone who can afford the insurance to get on a CBR1000RR on the first day of riding.

Quebec has a program
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...port-motorcycles-for-riders-under-25-1.829767

BC is moving that way....

Bond said restrictions will be developed by next spring that will set a limit on the horsepower of motorcycles used by new riders. The new rule will be an extension of the graduated licence restrictions for all new drivers.

The power restrictions were sought by Denise Lodge, who began lobbying for changes after her son Corey died in a crash in 2005. His accident on Highway 1 on Vancouver Island came the day after getting a learner's permit and buying a modified, high-speed motorcycle.
"I kept saying, if only he didn't have such a powerful bike," said Lodge, struggling to maintain her composure as she spoke at a news conference in Victoria. "If he only had the training. If only he had experience."

Lodge soon learned of motorcycle power restrictions in place in European countries, and began seeking similar regulations for B.C.
Bond said she plans to have consultations on power limits complete by this fall, and new rules in place before motorcycle riding season next year.
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http://www.bclocalnews.com/news/149556695.html

Here is the back story.
Day one of licence, 200 kph into a rock face. No training course, no restriction on his vehicle choice.

http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=cc6cf8cc-2dfd-4102-a6de-45ca39179385&sponsor=

Maybe then our insurance would go down.
 
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I see Ontario following suite within a few years.. restrictions on new riders etc. Graduated licensing etc.
 
I speak as a person who has hit a car that turned left in front of me. The driver in question pulled an unsignalled left turn into a parking area directly in front of me, no warning whatsoever. The female driver was paying more attention to chatting with her passengers than the two motorcycles that were oncoming (I was in front).

Seeing that there was traffic on the roads plus parking area etc, I had already slowed to the 35 mph speed limit (happened in Tennessee) which is pretty close to 60 km/h.

The moment the car started turning I knew I was going to hit it. Couldn't go right because of parked vehicles, couldn't go left because there was another vehicle behind the one that turned which I would have hit head on, there was only one lane each direction. (For those familiar with the area, this happened on TN 165 as you come off the Cherohala Skyway into Tellico Plains - right in front of the first little cafe/restaurant beside the river.) I hit the car with the front brakes locked and rear wheel in the air and in the process of tucking the front end. I probably got the speed knocked down to 20 - 30 km/h by the time of impact.

Damage to me ... sore wrist. Not that there was a lot of sliding, but I was wearing full leathers.

Damage to the car ... bashed in right rear fender.

Damage to the bike ... a lot, but I'm still riding it. It's this one ... http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?178050-FZR400-winter-overhaul

The general speed in the area where the crash that is the subject of this thread happened, *should* not be too different from 60 km/h.
 
DjEyeQ said:
This just happened in Mississauga. So sad to hear that the driver and passenger passed away.

http://www.cp24.com/news/two-people...involving-motorcycle-in-mississauga-1.1982066

Be safe out there!
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That sucks... Here is a related article: http://www.citynews.ca/2014/08/28/2-dead-in-mississauga-motorcycle-crash/
but i really dont understand what do they mean by this:
Edwards said that the motorcyclist was speeding and had driven on the shoulder and cut into traffic to get ahead.

“They were speeding and they were going significantly fast,” he said.
Police said it was much too early to determine if charges will be laid.
Burnhamthorpe is expected to be closed for several hours between Cawthra Road and Tomken while police investigate.



Whom are they going to charge?!?!!? 8-\
 
Brian P said:
I speak as a person who has hit a car that turned left in front of me. The driver in question pulled an unsignalled left turn into a parking area directly in front of me, no warning whatsoever. The female driver was paying more attention to chatting with her passengers than the two motorcycles that were oncoming (I was in front).

Seeing that there was traffic on the roads plus parking area etc, I had already slowed to the 35 mph speed limit (happened in Tennessee) which is pretty close to 60 km/h.

The moment the car started turning I knew I was going to hit it. Couldn't go right because of parked vehicles, couldn't go left because there was another vehicle behind the one that turned which I would have hit head on, there was only one lane each direction. (For those familiar with the area, this happened on TN 165 as you come off the Cherohala Skyway into Tellico Plains - right in front of the first little cafe/restaurant beside the river.) I hit the car with the front brakes locked and rear wheel in the air and in the process of tucking the front end. I probably got the speed knocked down to 20 - 30 km/h by the time of impact.

Damage to me ... sore wrist. Not that there was a lot of sliding, but I was wearing full leathers.

Damage to the car ... bashed in right rear fender.

Damage to the bike ... a lot, but I'm still riding it. It's this one ... http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?178050-FZR400-winter-overhaul

The general speed in the area where the crash that is the subject of this thread happened, *should* not be too different from 60 km/h.
Click to expand...

That's freshly paved, wide lanes where this happened. Line of sight is pretty good too. People usually go 10-20 over the limit down that stretch. Add to that any variance in speed increase, decrease, and bam, this happens. Unfortunate, but from initial accounts and witness statements, appeared avoidable.
 
Fen|X said:
Whom are they going to charge?!?!!? 8-\
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The car may have done something wrong too (unsafe left turn, passing, distracted driving etc.). Hell, maybe the car was going 100+ and the bike was going the speed limit when they hit.
 
This is a tragedy. Condolences to family and friends.

I drive a car and I ride a motorcycle. As a rider, I believe I'm in the minority as I do not ride believing that drivers are 'out to kill me'. As a driver, I am now more aware of motorcycles, but only because I ride one and know other riders.

Whether driving or riding, we as the operator or these vehicles need to be responsible. Drive and ride defensively.
 
CafeRay said:
You need to educate yourself and realize that in the majority of the high fatalities this season, the riders were either described as outright speeding or "erratic" in driving. Look at that car, this guy, with his pillion, was going way too fast. Fast enough to kill them both and destroy a car, on a city road.

Other reports mention he was on the shoulder. This was not an "accident", this was negligent riding. I know that area, and in the evening, it is ripe with f***tards on SS bikes competing for the Darwin award.

You want to live past 22? Then don't assume that cars are the problem. Any study on traffic safety in the last 30 years will tell you that speed difference is what kills, not outright speed. If you accelerate in traffic at twice the pace, then you are invisible half the time drivers typically scan their mirrors. Try driving in a car with guys approaching at those speeds. i think a major problem in younger riders is that they don't drive a car enough.

"Cagers suck" is just another symptom of an epidemic in society of people refusing to take responsibility for their actions. We have nothing to stand on if we don't clean up our own acts first, but the stats from this deadly summer show loss of control and rider at-fault to be major contributions, so watch for insurance and MTO retributions.

I think motorcyclists need to really reconsider what is a road bike. When I was riding at 17-25, 50-75 hp was a big deal, now it's twice that or more, while on the same two wheels.
Japan does not care about rider safety, they will sell you anything to make money.

I think it's time for the MTO to get radical. Ban pillions on SS bikes, and even consider building a road track closer to the GTA, with a drag and stunt area under safety controls and training.
The best road riders you will ever see are the ones going and coming from a racetrack.
Click to expand...

Every rider.. Especially new ones. Should read this..
Well said!
Speed difference is key






"If i was educated, I'd be a damn fool"
 
Stathakos said:
I just think I'm not ready to die before I turn 22.
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I'm glad you recognize that you're not ready to take on this risk, that says a lot about your level of patience. I would advise all younger riders to consider their decision very, very carefully. If I had started riding before 25 I probably wouldn't be alive today. You just don't have the patience and experience necessary to make the safest decisions. Ride safe.
 
Lost 2 good friends last night ... Thinking of yous regardless of who is at fault <3 it was a good ride
 
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