Driving Stick | GTAMotorcycle.com

Driving Stick

Boots

Boots

Well-known member
So I bought my first car last week and I've been having a little bit of trouble picking up stick on the car. Learning manual on a bike was easier for me for some reason; the feeling of moving or taking off from the friction zone is more noticeable, drop in RPMs is more audible, throttle control and giving the bike "a little" amount of gas seemed easier.

But ever since I bought this car I've been really choppy. The most notable thing I'm having trouble with is shifting from first to second without the car jerking (this is a brand new car, wondering if breaking the clutch in has anything to do with this). Am I supposed to dump the clutch after a shift and after I'm off the clutch I add gas? Or am I supposed to let off the clutch slowly while giving it gas even for shifts from first to second.

Any help on the matter by those who are veterans at stick would be greatly appreciated. If it makes any difference the car is a 2015 Scion FRS. And if it also makes any difference the engagement point is at the last quarter of the pedal. I know my buddy's Civic Si engaged about half way through, but upon releasing the clutch I noticed that it's right at the end of the pedal play when the clutch starts to engage.


EDIT: Evidently I know practicing is the key to perfecting smoothness in any MT car, but are there any tips I can use while I practice?
 
Slow and steady inputs. Don't dump anything. Apply throttle gently, disengage the clutch gently. As you get better these inputs will get faster.

While you're learning, you'll be slipping the clutch a lot more than an experienced driver would. That's just the nature of the learning curve.

Something I always tell newbies to practice, just to get the hang of clutch engagement, is going to a level lot and practicing getting the car rolling without adding throttle at all. Most cars will readily be able to do this if you slip the clutch slowly enough. Give it a shot, might give you better feel for the friction points.
 
Just smooth it out with the clutch. Maybe you also need to add more gas before releasing the clutch. Basically you want the rpms to be where they should be in advance.

Every car is a bit different. I had a civic that I basically never completely let off the gas between shifts because the rpms would drop fast but not rise quickly. Also when downshifting with the intent to accelerate don't let off the gas completely - you want rpms to be higher before releasing the clutch.
 
Alright sweet, and these smooth inputs wont damage the clutch right? Because I know if I were to release the clutch slowly it would technically be considered as burning the clutch for a moment. But I'm guessing it's not as damaging correct?
 
Just remember cars have dry clutches, so get on and get off the clutch, don't ride/slip it like you can on most bikes.
 
Yes, the clutch is going to break in. But not a heck of a lot. Depending on the material, design, etc. you may not even feel the change ('cause you are driving it continuously, and the change is gradual).

If you had asked me beforehand, I would have recommended to learn on a used car, even a winter beater. That was how I helped my girlfriend to learn, she tried it out for a few weeks using my old Corolla and then she got a newer car, and eventually a brand new one. I guess it is too late for you, you already have a brand new car.

It is all in the leg(s). It is smooth, flowing movement, not necessarily slow, but definitely not fast. Be the clutch.

A quote from The Matrix, just replace the word "spoon" with "clutch".

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
 
conundrum said:
Just remember cars have dry clutches, so get on and get off the clutch, don't ride/slip it like you can on most bikes.
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This is what confuses me the most. What would be an acceptable amount of time to slip the clutch in a car before you are considered burning the clutch? I know on a bike you can be in the friction zone for quite some time without any major issues but now since I've adopted this mentality sicne I started out on a bike, it's hard not to carry over to MT cars.
 
It will come to you... Practice finding that sweet spot (riding the clutch) at some empty parking lot. The rest will get polished over time.
 
Boots said:
This is what confuses me the most. What would be an acceptable amount of time to slip the clutch in a car before you are considered burning the clutch? I know on a bike you can be in the friction zone for quite some time without any major issues but now since I've adopted this mentality sicne I started out on a bike, it's hard not to carry over to MT cars.
Click to expand...

Disregard his comment, man. You're not gonna fry the clutch in the week or two it takes you to become smooth, don't worry about it. They take abuse.
 
How not to do it:

[video=youtube;acauKyXYyy4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acauKyXYyy4[/video]
 
From my experience with buying my first car as a manual transmission with only have tried it a few times prior, is it takes time. It took me a few months to get used to it. Then almost a year to get smooth. Oh and I didn't kill my clutch even though I bought a 2001 with 270K, if that helps :)

In the first few months I had also driven a couple people that also drive stick so pointers and tips from them helped a lot.
 
If the car is clunking/hunkering from shifting in the lower gears, you might not be shifting at the right RPM's. It will happen once you get more comfy.
 
Boots said:
This is what confuses me the most. What would be an acceptable amount of time to slip the clutch in a car before you are considered burning the clutch? I know on a bike you can be in the friction zone for quite some time without any major issues but now since I've adopted this mentality sicne I started out on a bike, it's hard not to carry over to MT cars.
Click to expand...

As a newbie, 2-3 seconds, maybe, before I would say you're riding the clutch and burning it out. However, once you get the hang of it, shifting really happening in less than 1 second. It's not rushed, but smooth. Takes time to get there tough. It really comes down to getting enough time behind the wheel. It's not about clutch break-in or the different engagement points for different cars or anything else like that at this point. You just need time to get the feel for what the engine and clutch are doing. Took me a while to eliminate the jerkiness so give yourself the time and just practice, practice, practice. Eventually it is all happens without you thinking about it. You're body including your hands, feet, butt and ears will develop that "feel."

In your original post you said that you're having a problem from first to second and that the car jerks. Not quite enough info but I'm going to guess that the engine revs are dropping too low before you re-engage the clutch in second. Next time have a look at your tach and see what happens as you're shifting. That will provide insight if you are shifting too quickly or too slowly. Likely, too slowly so you want to speed it up...but not dump it.

I'm a newbie bike rider and I'm nowhere near as smooth on the bike as I am on the car. Give it time and practice.
 
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DECIMIS said:
How not to do it:

[video=youtube;acauKyXYyy4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acauKyXYyy4[/video]
Click to expand...

The worst video of these is the one with the Yellow corvette. Guy burns the clutch for a good 20 seconds, and doesn't even know how to pop the hood on his vette. Made me sick.

Oh and another question: Typically when I reverse out of parking spots, I don't release the clutch all the way because I feel like the reverse gear when completely engaged is too fast in comparison to partially engaging the clutch and reversing slowly out of the parking spot. Is this a bad habit to have or should I get used to completely engaging reverse gear when leaving parking spaces?
 
Answers are based on circumstance. R is a very short gear, about the same as 1st or even shorter. If you're only reversing a short distance you may not need to engage the clutch fully.

Honestly, just drive. It'll come to you.
 
Boots said:
Oh and another question: Typically when I reverse out of parking spots, I don't release the clutch all the way because I feel like the reverse gear when completely engaged is too fast in comparison to partially engaging the clutch and reversing slowly out of the parking spot. Is this a bad habit to have or should I get used to completely engaging reverse gear when leaving parking spaces?
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This is fine. Reverse is definitely geared differently. I'm usually feathering the clutch and brake pedal at the same time finding the right balance depending on the desired speed. When I'm reversing, pretty much the only time I'm off the clutch and on the gas is if I'm going straight back and I need to do it fast.
 
caius said:
Next time have a look at your tach and see what happens as you're shifting. That will provide insight if you are shifting too quickly or too slowly.
Click to expand...

Gonna give this a shot when I head out next.

We seem to be the opposite me and you haha. I'm so much smoother on my bike than I am with the car. First season riding too. Can rev match and everything perfectly on the bike but it seems like a task in the car.

Thanks for all the suggestions guys I'll give this a shot the next time I go out. Will report back if anything changes.
 
mmmnaked said:
Slow and steady inputs. Don't dump anything. Apply throttle gently, disengage the clutch gently. As you get better these inputs will get faster.

While you're learning, you'll be slipping the clutch a lot more than an experienced driver would. That's just the nature of the learning curve.

Something I always tell newbies to practice, just to get the hang of clutch engagement, is going to a level lot and practicing getting the car rolling without adding throttle at all. Most cars will readily be able to do this if you slip the clutch slowly enough. Give it a shot, might give you better feel for the friction points.
Click to expand...

That's how I teach most people to drive MT. A lot of cars can gain enough speed while slowly releasing the clutch, enough to fully release the clutch without stalling. Any bad noises?--push that clutch back into the "safe zone".

After that, it should be easy. Shifting through gears you can choose to rely on the syncros (slipping the clutch) for the first bit, but eventually, you'll know how quick to let it out with minimal slipping.
 
Boots said:
The worst video of these is the one with the Yellow corvette. Guy burns the clutch for a good 20 seconds, and doesn't even know how to pop the hood on his vette. Made me sick.

Oh and another question: Typically when I reverse out of parking spots, I don't release the clutch all the way because I feel like the reverse gear when completely engaged is too fast in comparison to partially engaging the clutch and reversing slowly out of the parking spot. Is this a bad habit to have or should I get used to completely engaging reverse gear when leaving parking spaces?
Click to expand...

From what i witnessed at a local tim hortons it seems that they key is to rev up the car to 8,000rpm, and constantly blipping the throttle :lmao:
 
Well I'll Bewitched, I thought this was about driving a stick.
 
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