Building walking in for basement - advice needed | GTAMotorcycle.com

Building walking in for basement - advice needed

L

LiNK666

Well-known member
Hi folks,

Parents want to build a walk in entrance for their basement. It's going to go from the back yard and it has be dug 8 ft down. They called a few contractors to get an estimate to see the damage. They got a lot of different answers as to how it should be done. A few points I wanted to ask about just to make sure they get it done right.

1. Insulation - Some contractors say you need insulation under the steps? I don't really understand why there would be need for insulation. They ball parked the insulation at $1000. Is this for water protection for foundation?

2. Foundation protection - I assume they need some sort of protection at the side of the house where they dig up to make sure it's protected from water. What is this specifically? Want to make sure they use the right materials so there are no issues later on.

3. Drainage - There has to be a connection made to the pipe underground. Some recommended against it saying you cover the top with an awning and it'll slide the water off into the back yard? I assume drain is better, but some say it'll cost double if we want a drain in.

Any other things to be careful about or advise would be appreciated.

Any contractors that are on the forum that do this kind of thing please PM me or leave me contact info below.

Thanks!
 
IIRC correctly, this job is even bigger than you realize. The footings under the walls near the walkout must be double depth as you have now moved the frost line down.
 
This may be silly to say, but make sure you get your permits. My girlfriends dad, who does brilliant work with concrete, (is it a Portuguese thing?), put in stairs going down to the cantina. A neighbour complained and he had to undo it all. Sucks and then some.
 
GreyGhost said:
IIRC correctly, this job is even bigger than you realize. The footings under the walls near the walkout must be double depth as you have now moved the frost line down.
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Thanks I will look into this.

Seven said:
This may be silly to say, but make sure you get your permits. My girlfriends dad, who does brilliant work with concrete, (is it a Portuguese thing?), put in stairs going down to the cantina. A neighbour complained and he had to undo it all. Sucks and then some.
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Apparently, it's very hard to get a permit. All the contractors said they don't want to do it with a permit and if we pressed the permit they said it'll be double the cost lol
 
That might be the reason for the insulation under the stairs. I've heard of heating cables being used to avoid having to redo the foundations but the building departments might have a different idea. While it works it can have pitfalls.

Just saw the "No permits" bit.

Building departments now require engineered drawings. It would be a pretty desperate engineer to do crappy drawing and risk his licence / insurances.

Properly done this job is very complex. Do you want a best effort / hack job with no recourse? Flooded basement, heaved foundations etc.
 
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Rather than big *** awning why not put small extension on house with door. As soon as you walk in you're on top of the stairs.
 
nobbie48 said:
That might be the reason for the insulation under the stairs. I've heard of heating cables being used to avoid having to redo the foundations but the building departments might have a different idea. While it works it can have pitfalls.

Just saw the "No permits" bit.

Building departments now require engineered drawings. It would be a pretty desperate engineer to do crappy drawing and risk his licence / insurances.

Properly done this job is very complex. Do you want a best effort / hack job with no recourse? Flooded basement, heaved foundations etc.
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Well once it's a flooded basement and insurance wants proof of work being done properly you're done, I assume
 
LiNK666 said:
You mean an enclosure?
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Yes, it would look like walking into back door of house on level except it goes down to basement. 10x10 no permit needed. Sort of.
 
Get a permit for any work that requires one. I'm a municipal employee and I used to approve permits for water / sanitary hook ups. Believe me, it's not worth the headache to avoid a permit.
 
matthew said:
Get a permit for any work that requires one. I'm a municipal employee and I used to approve permits for water / sanitary hook ups. Believe me, it's not worth the headache to avoid a permit.
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I'm for a permit. Less headache for us later, but every contractor wants to avoid it like the plague. They all say double cost if permit is involved.
 
Find better contractors. It's not just a permit, bit its also WSIB and insurance that you need to worry about

They say it's going to cost double because they'll have to do it properly and not cut corners
 
matthew said:
Find better contractors. It's not just a permit, bit its also WSIB and insurance that you need to worry about

They say it's going to cost double because they'll have to do it properly and not cut corners
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Yeah. I think they're going to give up. 10k for a walk out is ridiculous lol
 
LiNK666 said:
I'm for a permit. Less headache for us later, but every contractor wants to avoid it like the plague. They all say double cost if permit is involved.
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That means they are cutting corners huge. Permits can be a pain, but there is no way permits should double the price if you were doing everything properly.

You are on the right track, it's not worth the headaches later (and the potential problems that can pop up when they try to sell the house). I've built without permits before, but made sure everything was up to code and, if I was concerned, I got the worked checked by tradesmen I trusted.
 
GreyGhost said:
That means they are cutting corners huge. Permits can be a pain, but there is no way permits should double the price if you were doing everything properly.

You are on the right track, it's not worth the headaches later (and the potential problems that can pop up when they try to sell the house). I've built without permits before, but made sure everything was up to code and, if I was concerned, I got the worked checked by tradesmen I trusted.
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Some were upfront about what a permit requires and what they think is not worth it. Permit cost $1200 also which is why they say we can build it without permit to full city code.

My biggest worry is liability from improper work and foundation.
 
it could be done well by a good contractor without a permit. But I would never allow it on my building. WAY too many fly by night contractors still running around and halfway through a job bailing and leaving a mess. You will totally get what you pay for on this one.
 
A year ago it cost about 10K to properly rebuild a small front porch in Hamilton. Two new columns and new deck, stairs. I know because I wrote the cheques.

The city wanted engineered drawings but that could be waived if the owner personally did their own drawings and gave them to the contractor. The cost was about $1500 otherwise. I thought this stair excavation was a $20K job going to $40K with permits.

Danger #2 is the bait and bash trick.

Contractor agrees to do job for cheap and rips the back of the house apart. Then he "Discovers" unforeseen items and needs another $10K+ or he walks.

If the owner doesn't cough up the cash he's left with an unsecured home. No one else wants to take on the project. The contractor could also put a lien on the house and the owner can't sell the place.

It happens. If it didn't Mike Holmes would be just another nail basher.
 
^^^ agreed

As a contractor myself there is way to many shady ones. With a permit if something does go wrong you have a leg to stand on. Without one, its your problem.

There is a ton of laws to protect the contractor and home owners can be easily taken advantage of.

You also need to make sure these people have proper insurance. Minimum 2 million dollar liability. Ask for a insurance form directly from the insurance company addressed to you. That way you know its in good standing.
 
One of my job requirements was to receive proof of insurance and WSIB forms for the contractor before work was permitted to commence.

Make sure all the insurance (insurance will supply their own forms) is up to date AND call the insurance company to verify
 
For a significant construction such as this, i.e. opening the foundation, without a permit you may face trouble if you ever want to sell the house, and if someone did want to purchase with a lack of permit and their insurance company would still insure them, then I would expect you would take a hit on the price that is probably more than the perceived cost savings of an unpermitted job.
 
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