Store at another location, "bike was stolen", profit??
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Failing to stop
- Thread starter Bike Cop
- Start date
Store at another location, "bike was stolen", profit??
'don't do the crime if you can't do the time!'"
Hey OP, is your story from Durham?
Anyhow, 172 is a big part of it. I got a 172 two years ago on the DVP. Copper was going northbound and I was going southbound around the don mills exit, he did a u turn and caught up to me at the lakeshore exit as there was construction.
I had no reason to run so I pulled over. He comes over, tells me I was racing and weaving out of traffic and asks for my documents to which I comply. Now I'm thinking to myself 1) was this guy behind me? and 2) was i weaving in and out of traffic? because I knew I was going faster that 90 I did not question speeding part.
Cop comes back from his car and says he is charing me with hta 172 because he followed me from dvp and eglington (he knew I got on the eglington ramp cause of my address on license) and watched me drive dangerously for about 10 km. WTF? LOL
Long story short, I got off because I requested the dash cam video which at first was lost and then a couple of days before trial turns up but is edited to only show 2 minutes at lakeshore exit where traffic is basically at standstill and cops is already behind me.
Even the JP was dumbfounded at how this cops claimed to of have followed me from DVP and eglington to DVP and lakeshore whiteout turning on cherries even though I was racing through traffic on my bike.
Although I beat the charge I still lost cause I already paid the consequences ie. DL suspension, towing expenses, legal expenses. After all of that, all I got to say is never again.
Anyhow, 172 is a big part of it. I got a 172 two years ago on the DVP. Copper was going northbound and I was going southbound around the don mills exit, he did a u turn and caught up to me at the lakeshore exit as there was construction.
I had no reason to run so I pulled over. He comes over, tells me I was racing and weaving out of traffic and asks for my documents to which I comply. Now I'm thinking to myself 1) was this guy behind me? and 2) was i weaving in and out of traffic? because I knew I was going faster that 90 I did not question speeding part.
Cop comes back from his car and says he is charing me with hta 172 because he followed me from dvp and eglington (he knew I got on the eglington ramp cause of my address on license) and watched me drive dangerously for about 10 km. WTF? LOL
Long story short, I got off because I requested the dash cam video which at first was lost and then a couple of days before trial turns up but is edited to only show 2 minutes at lakeshore exit where traffic is basically at standstill and cops is already behind me.
Even the JP was dumbfounded at how this cops claimed to of have followed me from DVP and eglington to DVP and lakeshore whiteout turning on cherries even though I was racing through traffic on my bike.
Although I beat the charge I still lost cause I already paid the consequences ie. DL suspension, towing expenses, legal expenses. After all of that, all I got to say is never again.
^ Pretty much a nutshell summary of a lot of the things that are wrong with that law. Doesn't inspire confidence in the legitimacy of the police force, either.
In every case where I've had "official" interactions with police, they have acted professionally. There have been a couple of cases where an officer has said something stupid ... like the copper at Deals Gap who told me that my rear tire pressure was low (it wasn't, it was right where I wanted it) and an OPP who talked in an accusatory tone at a group of us (we weren't where he accused us of having been at the time that he said) ... but they were basically harmless. You don't know whether the cop who just turned the cherries on is going to be reasonable, or a liar, until it's too late.
In every case where I've had "official" interactions with police, they have acted professionally. There have been a couple of cases where an officer has said something stupid ... like the copper at Deals Gap who told me that my rear tire pressure was low (it wasn't, it was right where I wanted it) and an OPP who talked in an accusatory tone at a group of us (we weren't where he accused us of having been at the time that he said) ... but they were basically harmless. You don't know whether the cop who just turned the cherries on is going to be reasonable, or a liar, until it's too late.
LoneRonin
Well-known member
Well, then they have to have a reasonable suspicion/cause to believe it was the same guy on the bike who they plan to charge, more than just showing up at his house a day later and seeing the bike parked up in his garage. I can be wearing a helmet and gear, next day I give it to you and you look the same. Another reason to be geared up if you're going to run. You don't want them seeing tattoos or other **** that will get you ID'd.
THEN, even after they charge you and make your life a pain in the *** they have to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt it was you. If you have a tinted visor and in gear that's really hard to prove. They can't just have surveillance on your *** and see you wearing the same stuff later on and use that...because for all we know that day it could be Dick ****ing Grayson out in Batman's costume, so you can't be like "Oh I saw Bruce Wayne..." with certainty. Same thing applies here.
When these pigs come fishing on leads without anything solid they really try and grill you hard and intimidate and threaten you with ********. Just keep your mouth shut and smile. If they're going arrest you, they're going to arrest you, not ask ******** questions. SO if they are trying to get anything out of you KEEP YOUR ****ING MOUTH SHUT.
Had a pig come to my door at 11pm just to harass me, my dog is obviously on edge so I take a while to calm him down before opening the door a crack. Cop tells me to go put my dog in another room before he has to shoot him!! I was like wtf?? I said to him "Its his house and he'll do what he wants. You stay right where you are (outside) and we won't have any issues."
I wanted to report his badge number and if I'm ever in a situation like this again I'll make sure to put my GoPro on with the headband mount.
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kwtoxman
Well-known member
172 changed the landscape for riders in a bad bad way. A lot of people won't stop because they don't want to chance a 172 charge. That is the root of it to most who run imo. And they'll run for relatively minor stuff because 172 can and has been used on pretty minor stuff.
Riders know what can constitute a 172 is so broad and discretionary that for many of them, even though they may not have been doing much of anything wrong, it makes a lot of sense to run because there is a reasonable chance the officer is thinking 172. I remember weaving and standing on the pegs even being considered possible for a 172 charge. I get a bad hip cramp on one side from time to time riding and I immediately stand up to relieve the pain and stretch it out. What happens if an officer sees this and lights up? Am I getting a 172 charge for standing on my pegs on a sport bike because of a hip cramp? What should I do? Plus, there is the Bunda case. Squeezing for a right turn was found to be 172 worthy. http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...ate-of-the-law-in-Ontario-a-look-at-R-v-Bunda. Worthy of impoundment, $2k fine minimum, and even more so heart-attack (facility) insurance rates for every vehicle and motorcycle he has for more than a few years.
Another related consideration is that the punishment for running and getting caught is frankly similar to a 172 charge. And a plate means nothing if the rider isn't a doofus. Even the youtube 299 km/hr guy in BC traffic got off.
Another consideration ae previous bad experiences with a police officer or officers. I know some good cops, and I've dealt with a few bad cops. Want to roll the dice on what kind of officer has just lit you up? With the 172 legislation out there? Out riding one day years ago before 172 I got a FI problem that resulted in erratic throttle response. Turned around and on my way home (who wants to drive a wonky bike with a flashing red warning light on the dash), pointed out the flashing red warning light and explained the issue to the officer. He said he'd give me a ticket but if I show up to court with service proof of the problem and getting it fixed he would kill the ticket. Got it fixed (new bike under warranty), it was a TPS issue, went to court and showed the officer the service receipt which had a detailed description and explanation. He completely forgot about the earlier conversation and refused to honor his offer. Unfortunately, in many people's experience, many police officer's cannot be trusted.
Then there is the shady side of using 172 that so many riders read about or observe. There have been some real stretches for charges. Then the fraudulent 172 charges. Then the speed traps like at the end of 410 where the speed limit decreases that is nothing more than a revenue tool with zero safety in mind and they've 172'd vehicles there as well.
Many people like to wheelie. I really enjoy wheelie-ing. That is explicit 172 charge territory. What happens if a rider wheelie-ing sees a cop car or SUV? Very often I'd guess.... hammer down. For a wheelie.
My thought processes about what I'd do with a police interaction on my sportbike before 172 is now very different with 172 out there. Most riders are just people. They'll take their lumps with typical HTA legislation (speeding charges, undue care and attention, etc). But with draconian 172 legislation out there, for many all bets are off.
Riders know what can constitute a 172 is so broad and discretionary that for many of them, even though they may not have been doing much of anything wrong, it makes a lot of sense to run because there is a reasonable chance the officer is thinking 172. I remember weaving and standing on the pegs even being considered possible for a 172 charge. I get a bad hip cramp on one side from time to time riding and I immediately stand up to relieve the pain and stretch it out. What happens if an officer sees this and lights up? Am I getting a 172 charge for standing on my pegs on a sport bike because of a hip cramp? What should I do? Plus, there is the Bunda case. Squeezing for a right turn was found to be 172 worthy. http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...ate-of-the-law-in-Ontario-a-look-at-R-v-Bunda. Worthy of impoundment, $2k fine minimum, and even more so heart-attack (facility) insurance rates for every vehicle and motorcycle he has for more than a few years.
Another related consideration is that the punishment for running and getting caught is frankly similar to a 172 charge. And a plate means nothing if the rider isn't a doofus. Even the youtube 299 km/hr guy in BC traffic got off.
Another consideration ae previous bad experiences with a police officer or officers. I know some good cops, and I've dealt with a few bad cops. Want to roll the dice on what kind of officer has just lit you up? With the 172 legislation out there? Out riding one day years ago before 172 I got a FI problem that resulted in erratic throttle response. Turned around and on my way home (who wants to drive a wonky bike with a flashing red warning light on the dash), pointed out the flashing red warning light and explained the issue to the officer. He said he'd give me a ticket but if I show up to court with service proof of the problem and getting it fixed he would kill the ticket. Got it fixed (new bike under warranty), it was a TPS issue, went to court and showed the officer the service receipt which had a detailed description and explanation. He completely forgot about the earlier conversation and refused to honor his offer. Unfortunately, in many people's experience, many police officer's cannot be trusted.
Then there is the shady side of using 172 that so many riders read about or observe. There have been some real stretches for charges. Then the fraudulent 172 charges. Then the speed traps like at the end of 410 where the speed limit decreases that is nothing more than a revenue tool with zero safety in mind and they've 172'd vehicles there as well.
Many people like to wheelie. I really enjoy wheelie-ing. That is explicit 172 charge territory. What happens if a rider wheelie-ing sees a cop car or SUV? Very often I'd guess.... hammer down. For a wheelie.
My thought processes about what I'd do with a police interaction on my sportbike before 172 is now very different with 172 out there. Most riders are just people. They'll take their lumps with typical HTA legislation (speeding charges, undue care and attention, etc). But with draconian 172 legislation out there, for many all bets are off.
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Ok, admit never heard of 172 before coming to this forum, is this law specific to one province or universal across Canada? thanks
on a side note once saw two bikes wheelie half the distance down a busy street, actually was surprised, then a few minuts later heard the cop sirens, never did know if the stunt riders got caught but they sure knew how to ride a bike good or bad.
on a side note once saw two bikes wheelie half the distance down a busy street, actually was surprised, then a few minuts later heard the cop sirens, never did know if the stunt riders got caught but they sure knew how to ride a bike good or bad.
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LoneRonin
Well-known member
Yea, its Ontario specific. Stupid law where just about anything is a 'stunt'; 50 over the limit, standing on pegs, burnout, weaving, lane splitting, even lane filtering at a standstill if they feel like it, coasting with no hands, excessive lean angle, just about anything they want.
You really like it here don't you??
It is part of Ontario HTA, but several other provinces (notably Quebec and BC) have adopted variations of it. Many US states also have something of this sort, but our experience having done many trips to the US has been that they only really resort to throwing you in jail if you really do something to tick them off. For example, in Georgia, the prescribed penalty for 9 mph above speed limit or less is zero (so you'll never get a ticket for <9 mph over in Georgia!) but 20 mph above can be considered "reckless" and they could theoretically throw you in jail ... but I've never seen it actually happen. Run from the cops in the US, though, and things will head south REAL fast.
Fight or flight... it's human nature.
The one time the lights came on behind me I pulled over, cop was nice, told me to slow down... let me go. I wasn't doing anything crazy, but I was ripping through the gears on a city street, maybe going a little too fast...
The one time the lights came on behind me I pulled over, cop was nice, told me to slow down... let me go. I wasn't doing anything crazy, but I was ripping through the gears on a city street, maybe going a little too fast...
OK, this law is big brother maxed out, actaully very scary just reading about 172, hope BC is not as strict, seems absolutely ridicoulous to say the least..
now see why if cop has a bad day your day will get much worse also..
So if this law is so vague is it not likely easy to challenge in court, but can see the damage is done before in a court case, ridicoulous.
now see why if cop has a bad day your day will get much worse also..
So if this law is so vague is it not likely easy to challenge in court, but can see the damage is done before in a court case, ridicoulous.
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Fight or flight... it's human nature.
The one time the lights came on behind me I pulled over, cop was nice, told me to slow down... let me go. I wasn't doing anything crazy, but I was ripping through the gears on a city street, maybe going a little too fast...
Same thing happened to me slightly speeding, the policeman just waved to slow, not sure why not stopped..
Maybe they would go easier on you if waited for green light.
No problem, glad to help.
Be smart, the OP is fishing. He wants to see who claims they run and then link that to your bike description...
For the record (and for the OP) I think running is stupid.
At the same time I am getting sick of the cover-ups for crooked cops and the abuse of power. I am a totally law abiding family man and EVERY interaction I have had with police in the last years has been entirely negative all based on their power trip.
Then there is this....
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...hat-ever-happened-to-Sgt-Dennis-Mahoney-Bruer
For the record (and for the OP) I think running is stupid.
At the same time I am getting sick of the cover-ups for crooked cops and the abuse of power. I am a totally law abiding family man and EVERY interaction I have had with police in the last years has been entirely negative all based on their power trip.
Then there is this....
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...hat-ever-happened-to-Sgt-Dennis-Mahoney-Bruer
Bike Cop
Well-known member
I think only the +50, weaving through traffic or lane splitting would be considered stunt. The others are urban myths.
For the poster who asked where that case was from, it was in York.
As long as there is a significant punishment dished out before conviction and still owing even when found innocent people will run.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Bike Cop
Well-known member
Sorry to disappoint, I'm not building a database of bikes in the GTA. Wasn't fishing, just trying to start some dialogue. On my last nightshift I saw a pair of bikes as a result of a traffic complaint about them racing, and I couldn't get near them to even look at their plates. I was going to try and stop them to give them a warning because I didn't see the alleged offence but I couldn't even get close.
If we are talking about people who think they're above the law, how about folks that ride like that? Please don't misconstrue that as a defence for Mahoney-Bruer... What he did is inexcusable.
Well glad to hear some things get exaggerated, because law or not I will weave at times to get cagers to notice...
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