Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation. | Page 34 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Jayv said:
I'm pretty sure if this happened to one of your friends Rob your attitude would change.
If you don't care, why do you continue adding to your post count?

Guy was speeding, his friends acknowledge that fact. Whether or not due care and attention was displayed by the officer when performing a u-turn on a country road is what the other side is looking for.

The answer is buried within siu, who don't have a stellar past record.
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Call it a perverse need to bash my head against a wall until either the wall comes down, or I'm rendered unconscious. I've lost fiends, too, and a good friend and neighbour suffered life altering injuries when some idiot performed a U-turn at an intersection, right in front of her.

Calling it 'speeding' minimizes the situation. The SIU has facts, based on their investigation. This is not synonymous with 'the answer.' We rarely get to the truth. All we come to is a resolution.
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Jayv said:
I'm pretty sure if this happened to one of your friends Rob your attitude would change.
If you don't care, why do you continue adding to your post count?

Guy was speeding, his friends acknowledge that fact. Whether or not due care and attention was displayed by the officer when performing a u-turn on a country road is what the other side is looking for.

The answer is buried within siu, who don't have a stellar past record.
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Sport bike riders in general don't have a stellar past record either; but I can safely assume that people would not want to be judged on that premise. Further, the relationship to the rider is nothing more than a good reason NOT to get involved in the debate, so that clear vision is possible.

The problem with what the "other side" is looking for is in that exact sentence.....they should strictly be looking for evidence, not what they have assumed to have happened. They acknowledge the speeding, but do not acknowledge the impact that has on another persons ability to perform due care and attention. They further do not acknowledge that if the speed was not so extreme, then the outcome WOULD have been so much different. You can survive things so much easier when you have a realistic chance to react to an obstacle, and the overall speed of impact may leave you injured, but alive. The speed that was PROVEN is very relevant, and not survivable. The "other side" has also completely ignored another huge possibility, in that the rider's speed was only measured at the panic brake area; how fast was he going before that?
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Why is that to be ones "default" position by that reasoning, (that we should trust the SIU as it uses former police investigators), then we shouldn't trust the NTSB, As many of it's investigators are former pilots or worked in the aviation industry, the same for those who invesigate say construction work place incidents as they worked in the construction industry. Therefore, I guess we should have the guy from Rona investigate construction accidents, they guy from a model airplane club take over the NTSB and shoplifting prevention guys from Walmart do the SIU investigations. Then we could all be satisfied the investigation is above reproach and competent?

Of course I am being facetious in these examples, but at some point society has to put their faith in the pride in which professionals do there job does it not?

inreb said:
Exactly. So for somebody to post suspicions of police/SIU/Crown/Government/experts is only right. For certain people to bring "big firepower" to the argument is bogus and suspicious.
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

happycrappy said:
Sport bike riders in general don't have a stellar past record either; but I can safely assume that people would not want to be judged on that premise. Further, the relationship to the rider is nothing more than a good reason NOT to get involved in the debate, so that clear vision is possible.

The problem with what the "other side" is looking for is in that exact sentence.....they should strictly be looking for evidence, not what they have assumed to have happened. They acknowledge the speeding, but do not acknowledge the impact that has on another persons ability to perform due care and attention. They further do not acknowledge that if the speed was not so extreme, then the outcome WOULD have been so much different. You can survive things so much easier when you have a realistic chance to react to an obstacle, and the overall speed of impact may leave you injured, but alive. The speed that was PROVEN is very relevant, and not survivable. The "other side" has also completely ignored another huge possibility, in that the rider's speed was only measured at the panic brake area; how fast was he going before that?
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Perfect. I think this thread is a good stand in for the distrust of offialdom in general. The perspective above would be common among police etc. Again about the speed. That's the crux. Everybody may suspect the officer pulled a miscalculated boner move or worse purposely tried to obstruct the bike but, the guy was SPEEDING!! Why impact negatively the career and life of an official person (one of us) when one of them was SPEEDING!!
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

hedo2002 said:
Why is that to be ones "default" position by that reasoning, (that we should trust the SIU as it uses former police investigators), then we shouldn't trust the NTSB, As many of it's investigators are former pilots or worked in the aviation industry, the same for those who invesigate say construction work place incidents as they worked in the construction industry. Therefore, I guess we should have the guy from Rona investigate construction accidents, they guy from a model airplane club take over the NTSB and shoplifting prevention guys from Walmart do the SIU investigations. Then we could all be satisfied the investigation is above reproach and competent?

Of course I am being facetious in these examples, but at some point society has to put their faith in the pride in which professionals do there job does it not?
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Follow the biases. It's a huge part of human nature. Don't talk about professionals like it's some kind of salve. I readily acknowledge we live in an imperfect world. Only so much can be done within those confines.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

inreb said:
Perfect. I think this thread is a good stand in for the distrust of offialdom in general. The perspective above would be common among police etc. Again about the speed. That's the crux. Everybody may suspect the officer pulled a miscalculated boner move or worse purposely tried to obstruct the bike but, the guy was SPEEDING!! Why impact negatively the career and life of an official person (one of us) when one of them was SPEEDING!!
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Witty response without even a remedial attempt at comprehension. To whit: " acknowledge the impact that has on another persons ability to perform due care and attention. " That was my reference to the level of speed, which BTW, was in the CRIMINAL range of speed, not just "speeding". Nice try though.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

And we agree.

I was merely pointing out the SIU was formed because of a lack of public trust in Police investigating police, (likely a good stand to have) so the government of the day took a knee jerk reaction and created the SIU which has support from neither side, (the support like respect MUST be earned, not just granted). But to be fair the SIU has to draw it's pool of investigators from somewhere. I am sure most would agree a walmart investigator or a "security guard" doesn't possess the skills gained over decades, (in many cases), of police investigations and police training.

I doubt we will ever find a solution which is perfect, so as you wisely put it we must live within the confines of what we have.

inreb said:
Follow the biases. It's a huge part of human nature. Don't talk about professionals like it's some kind of salve. I readily acknowledge we live in an imperfect world. Only so much can be done within those confines.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

You accuse me of not comprehending. You're using the red herring technique. We could have 10 exchanges but my bias tells me not today.

edit, this response is for happycamper, not comprehending lol:rolleyes:
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

hedo2002 said:
And we agree.

I was merely pointing out the SIU was formed because of a lack of public trust in Police investigating police, (likely a good stand to have) so the government of the day took a knee jerk reaction and created the SIU which has support from neither side, (the support like respect MUST be earned, not just granted). But to be fair the SIU has to draw it's pool of investigators from somewhere. I am sure most would agree a walmart investigator or a "security guard" doesn't possess the skills gained over decades, (in many cases), of police investigations and police training.

I doubt we will ever find a solution which is perfect, so as you wisely put it we must live within the confines of what we have.
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I just teared up a little bit. To early for group hug?
 
I don't know about you folks but, with all this wisdom and witty contributions, makes me wonder where everyone finds the time to ride?

Heading out for a scoot now. Cheers!!!
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

hedo2002 said:
Not unless casacrow decides to join in..lmao So I suspect it might be out :)
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Definately not until the true events are acknowledged and charges are filed.

A group hug will not fix this. I will continue to provide the loudest voice of truth possible.

Thanks again BrianP for spending the time to really look into this and form your own opinion. It helps more than you know right now.

Let's continue this discussion in a civil and respectful manner.

There is much more work to be done here. Anyone that really wants to do more than type messages on an internet forum please PM me. I am particualrly interested in any photos you may have of the crash scene before barriers were removed. I neglected to take any when I visited the site.

I am very interested to hear from friends and family. You can private message me here.
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

We are at post 673. If the officer did not do anything wrong I doubt we would be discussing this for as long as we have.

If there was insufficient evidence to lay charges we would have had insufficient discussion to reach 673 posts. At minimal a charge should have been laid. We all know it would have been dropped as soon as it hit the courts before a conviction would be sentenced against the officer. But it seems to me that the SUI knew this and saved the tax payer all the court costs.
 
nakkers said:
I don't know about you folks but, with all this wisdom and witty contributions, makes me wonder where everyone finds the time to ride?

Heading out for a scoot now. Cheers!!!
Click to expand...

Went out after my last post, just got back. Looks like the roadside veggie stands see themselves as more boutique than hard scrabble farmers but I digress.

I had a good think while riding and came to the conclusion that this unfortunate incident might be compared to the recent Tony Stewart thing. I guess the experts have concluded not worth going forward on charges or further action. The kid had THC in the blood and was out of the car on the track. That Tony Stewart ran him over seems beside the point. I see a parallel. It's possible TS wanted to buzz the kid, scare him, maybe spray dirt on his trousers but of course not kill him. Bonehead move gone bad.
 
inreb said:
Went out after my last post, just got back. Looks like the roadside veggie stands see themselves as more boutique than hard scrabble farmers but I digress.

I had a good think while riding and came to the conclusion that this unfortunate incident might be compared to the recent Tony Stewart thing. I guess the experts have concluded not worth going forward on charges or further action. The kid had THC in the blood and was out of the car on the track. That Tony Stewart ran him over seems beside the point. I see a parallel. It's possible TS wanted to buzz the kid, scare him, maybe spray dirt on his trousers but of course not kill him. Bonehead move gone bad.
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Or someone who was stoned tried to pick a fight with a juggernaut. It's all in the POV.
 
One correction I have said I have had others pull what I judged to be boneheaded moves. I have NEVER posted the officers move was bone headed. I said it may not have been the "best option". So please try to keep the facts straight.

Regardless of how the officers actions are "categorized", they simply do NOT meet the criteria for a charge.

I have given you MANY options of who you should be contacting to demand another investigation. I also provided you with the information on how to proceed to swear out your own information to lay a private charge against the officer.

So if your truly entrenched in the believe YOU know better and your firm in your convictions go ahead lay the charge. Of course the potential pitfalls are the officer may actually been found NOT guilty. He then also may decide to launch a civil suit against you for malicious prosecution. The crown has protection against this type of suit but individuals do not.

I wish you all the luck in your continued witch hunt.

casacrow said:
Yup, applied to what happened here; "Bonehead(As per Hedo) move gone bad" would be the shortest line that can sum this up.
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

casacrow said:
Definately not until the true events are acknowledged and charges are filed.

A group hug will not fix this. I will continue to provide the loudest voice of truth possible.

Thanks again BrianP for spending the time to really look into this and form your own opinion. It helps more than you know right now.

Let's continue this discussion in a civil and respectful manner.

There is much more work to be done here. Anyone that really wants to do more than type messages on an internet forum please PM me. I am particualrly interested in any photos you may have of the crash scene before barriers were removed. I neglected to take any when I visited the site.

I am very interested to hear from friends and family. You can private message me here.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that the 'true events' will support your world view. This is not necessarily the case. At any rate it's known facts, not 'true events', that determine whether or not charges are filed and as of this date the SIU has declined to recommend charging the officer, as the known facts do not support the chance of conviction.
 
The point I was trying to make is if the rider was not speeding and in the same spot he was when the cop pulled out there still would have been a collision. Mind you he may still be alive but we don't know that.

Most U-turn collisions happen due to someone pulling out in front of someone when it is too late to make any manuvers or slow down.

My brother was hit by a cabbie doing a uturn in a blind corner, brothers speed was no more than 30 kms an hour as he had just made a turn onto that street from a stop. No way to avoid it. Now imagine my brother being on a bike not in his cage. Could have been fatal then, regardless of his speed.

Dicsusion is good to see all points of view. No need to talk to people like they are dumb for not having your ideas or thoughts.
 
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