Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation. | Page 13 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Clayton Rivet death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

See here http://www.siu.on.ca/en/news_template.php?nrid=1974 An officer can be found solely responsible for a collision, yet not charged. This bother anyone else?

Back to Clay.......Curious, does anyone here believe that there is a chance that the officer's turning manouver was was illegal considering the location? If so, should the officer be charged under HTA?

From what little information I have, I would have to say that it was not an illegal turn.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Just FYI, 150 metres at 150 km/h takes 3.6 seconds for the vehicle to cover at constant speed.

Deceleration at 1 g from 150 km/h (likely possible on this presumably-ABS-equipped bike) will take 4.25 seconds and would cover 88 metres. Even if we assume less-than-optimum traction conditions or sub-optimal braking and use 0.5 g deceleration, it would take 8.5 seconds and cover 176 metres.

If the rider left skid marks and only managed to knock a few km/h off his speed there is no way the officer looked 150 m down the road ... or perhaps his view was blocked by the construction barriers (in which case it WAS an illegal U-turn) ... or perhaps he didn't look at all.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Just FYI, 150 metres at 150 km/h takes 3.6 seconds for the vehicle to cover at constant speed.

Deceleration at 1 g from 150 km/h (likely possible on this presumably-ABS-equipped bike) will take 4.25 seconds and would cover 88 metres. Even if we assume less-than-optimum traction conditions or sub-optimal braking and use 0.5 g deceleration, it would take 8.5 seconds and cover 176 metres.

If the rider left skid marks and only managed to knock a few km/h off his speed there is no way the officer looked 150 m down the road ... or perhaps his view was blocked by the construction barriers (in which case it WAS an illegal U-turn) ... or perhaps he didn't look at all.


The SIU release references "possible visual obstructions caused by construction work in the area". Not sure how they can say possible, the obstruction was either there or it wasn't. I saw it. It was there.

Without interviewing the officer or viewing their notes, they also mention the officer's INTENT to make a Uturn. How can they possibly draw conclusions of someone's intent? How could they possibly know a Uturn was even the intent, and not to block the road? Seeing that a Uturn was never completed, and a road block was very successfully accomplished, could one assume the intent was to block the road unless the officer says otherwise?
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

HTA 143 C
PROHIBITED U TURN-UPON APPROACH TO HILL CREST

Unsafe move may also apply, possibly failing to stop before entering roadway as well depending on GPS data.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

So somehow a cop getting slapped with a hta fine would make all of this better? That does what for the loss of your friend exactly? I'm sorry for what happened but the odds of the cop getting a fine when they've already concluded that the speed of the rider was the main cause are pretty slim.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

You have it all wrong. The rider is NOT at fault, regardless of his speed. The ONLY person responsible is the cop. The "Internet CSI's have conducted an extensive investigation of this entire incident. The SIU on the other hand didn't even collect any evidence and were likely on scene for no more than 5 minutes.

Oh for all you Internet CSI's the worst thing ANY " investigator can do is start the investigation with a predetermined conclusion.

So somehow a cop getting slapped with a hta fine would make all of this better? That does what for the loss of your friend exactly? I'm sorry for what happened but the odds of the cop getting a fine when they've already concluded that the speed of the rider was the main cause are pretty slim.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Oh my bad. I thought it was concluded speed was a factor.

These investigations should be handled by an independent is the problem.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Oh my bad. I thought it was concluded speed was a factor.

These investigations should be handled by an independent is the problem.

For future reference, speed is almost always listed as being 'a factor' in accident reports.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Oh my bad. I thought it was concluded speed was a factor.

These investigations should be handled by an independent is the problem.
I think he was being sarcastic... or maybe you were too. hahah
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

What a surprise! A report is made public and the bandwagon rips is apart because it doesn't make the conclusion others have made.

If there is anything to learn, don't take the open road for granted and make it your personal GP.


RIP.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Btw, if the motorcyclist had been found to be doing the posted speed limit or under, would they have charged the officer ?
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Btw, if the motorcyclist had been found to be doing the posted speed limit or under, would they have charged the officer ?

If he had been doing the posted limit or under this likely wouldn't have happened.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Btw, if the motorcyclist had been found to be doing the posted speed limit or under, would they have charged the officer ?

Clay may have been able to better react to the careless vehicle movements in front of him, if his speed was reduced.

Who knows what would of happened had speeding not been an issue as well. I'd imagine same outcome, but I'd rather spend my time and effort focusing on the true events.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Clay may have been able to better react to the careless vehicle movements in front of him, if his speed was reduced.

Who knows what would of happened had speeding not been an issue as well. I'd imagine same outcome, but I'd rather spend my time and effort focusing on the true events.

Been following this thread. You want to focus on true events, here it is:
Your friend made a bad decision and tragically paid the ultimate price.
An investigation concluded that there was no criminal intent (which you have not disputed) and no grounds for criminal charges.
You are adamant that the cop should be charged for an improper turn.
Cop has to live the rest of his life with the memory of watching a life lost as a direct result of his actions and you're concerned that he might have gotten off the hook on a traffic ticket?

I fear all hope is lost for gen Y.

For the record, I've made the same poor decisions as your friend so many times that I quit street riding. As a result, I have particular empathy for tragedies like this. Also, not one to immediately give a cop the benefit of the doubt. Still can't see what satisfaction or closure any party would get by a traffic ticket being issued.

I'm sorry for your loss.
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Been following this thread. You want to focus on true events, here it is:
Your friend made a bad decision and tragically paid the ultimate price.
An investigation concluded that there was no criminal intent (which you have not disputed) and no grounds for criminal charges.
You are adamant that the cop should be charged for an improper turn.
Cop has to live the rest of his life with the memory of watching a life lost as a direct result of his actions and you're concerned that he might have gotten off the hook on a traffic ticket?

I fear all hope is lost for gen Y.

For the record, I've made the same poor decisions as your friend so many times that I quit street riding. As a result, I have particular empathy for tragedies like this. Also, not one to immediately give a cop the benefit of the doubt. Still can't see what satisfaction or closure any party would get by a traffic ticket being issued.

I'm sorry for your loss.

So just because he is a cop he shouldn't be charged with a HTA offence? Or how about when a normal civilian kills someone by doing a careless maneuver in an automobile they shouldn't be charged either because it wouldn't give the family satisfaction or closure? Do you even read what you type? Not to mention it would help with the civil suit.
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

So just because he is a cop he shouldn't be charged with a HTA offence? Or how about when a normal civilian kills someone by doing a careless maneuver in an automobile they shouldn't be charged either because it wouldn't give the family satisfaction or closure? Do you even read what you type? Not to mention it would help with the civil suit.

No, because it doesn't appear that a HTA offence was committed, he shouldn't be charged with a HTA offence. I would think that a civil suit doesn't stand much of a chance either.
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

So just because he is a cop he shouldn't be charged with a HTA offence? Or how about when a normal civilian kills someone by doing a careless maneuver in an automobile they shouldn't be charged either because it wouldn't give the family satisfaction or closure? Do you even read what you type? Not to mention it would help with the civil suit.


Ah the magic phrase has FINALLY appeared. Although incorrect. A HTA charge will not have any bearing on a civil suit. Just like the acquittal of OJ didn't affect the civil suits against him.

The one thing that will affect any judgement , if they prevail, will be Clayton's actions, (his speed will be considered a major contributing factor, and will significantly reduce any award as he will "likely" be assigned a considerable amount of fault for the collision). You can bet the insurance lawyers will bring up everything to attempt to further reduce of eliminate damage awards, (yes using Clayton's FB page and his hooliganism, will be brought up, as they will want to show, remember they don't need to prove it, in a civil trial, that he was predisposed to dangerous and reckless behaviour), weather he was or not isn't really relevant all they have to do is plant the seed.

BTW the SIU didn't say the officers actions were "completely justified", they ruled the officers actions didn't meet the legal threshold to warrant they laying of charges.

Also someone asked how the SIU could rule there "may have been visual obstructions from the constructions" and not known 100%. There is actually a pretty simple logical conclusion that can be drawn. There would have been no way to determine Clayton's seated position on the bike at the time, (IE was he in a more upright position as opposed to a more tucked position). That could affect his ability to see over any of the barriers present at the time, (because again they looked at ALL evidence), I bet none of the internet CSI's here even considered this as a potential factor.

As to the statement they made about the "officer's intent to make a U Turn" again someone questioned how they could know what his intent was without speaking to him. Again simple answer they looked at the cruiser's blackbox and GPS information. This would have given them PRECISE movements of the cruiser, before doing and post collision. So again if the cruiser, (I will use a different term so casacrow doesn't go off again), "swung to the right and then began a movement" indicating the cruiser was in the process of turning to proceed in the other direction, (likely as most do when making a uturn without stopping first), then they can again draw a logical conclusion, as to his intent. This is done every time there is a fatal. Investigators for a variety of reasons can't speak to all parties involved, the officer in this case chose as is his legal right, to exercise the same rights afforded EVERY citizen of Canada.
 
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Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

So just because he is a cop he shouldn't be charged with a HTA offence? Or how about when a normal civilian kills someone by doing a careless maneuver in an automobile they shouldn't be charged either because it wouldn't give the family satisfaction or closure? Do you even read what you type? Not to mention it would help with the civil suit.

Just curious, also something that can occur in a "normal" fatal collision, is that the surviving party can sue the deceased party's estate for their own losses or perils. Since this rider has PROVEN to be such a significant part of this collision's cause, why shouldn't the officer be suing for his own suffering as a result?

I am absolutely blown away by the complete absence of responsibility people have these days. I don't wish death on anyone, but I am beyond sick of the blinders people choose to keep wearing around this issue. Don't want to die in a horrific, high speed crash that completely alters the lives of those directly in the crash, your own friends and family, witnesses, first responders, etc? This death was 100% optional. Sorry pal, I'm sorry for your loss but make no mistake; this rider had NO regard for the lives of others. A few inches elsewhere on the impact area would have been a dead cop too, so don't forget that.
I really do wish our laws reflected CLEARLY that such a gap over a given speed limit should automatically drop the entire fault of a collision on the speeder. This guy not only doubled the limit, but he did it in a construction zone, in an area known to him, that he also would have known he had limited visibility. This guy did not give a pinch of **** about anyone else. As I have mentioned elsewhere on this forum, what if there simply had been a broken down car in that exact spot? So the rider can kill some poor bastard waiting for a tow truck? The sad reality here is that you're completely ignoring the MAGNITUDE of how idiotic this guy was, and how much danger he put other people in. I'm sure that'll help in the civil suit though
 
Re: Claton Rivert death and Questions Swirl around SIU investigation.

Nobody should ever assume that vehicles are traveling the speed limit. Even the police.

There is the possibility that the approaching vehicle may be an emergency vehicle. Police speed as well, as Hedo observed on 115.

If you read the post in it's entirety you would have seen that I not only took the highest speed limit roads where u-turns are possible, but I also added an extra 30km/h to the equation. I assumed nothing.

Let's assume the opposite here happened, Clayton was doing a U-turn on his bike, and the cop came flying up that road at 150km/h and killed him. Would those defending him now be defending the actions of the cop in that case? Or would you be blaming Clayton for doing a U-turn?
 
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