Well you really only need to look one way. Haha
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How is this ok?
- Thread starter kneedragger88
- Start date
Well you really only need to look one way. Haha
SweetOnion
Well-known member
Well there was that track day a couple years ago when the 2 drag cars came down the straight away into the rider's meeting, trying to locate the drag strip.
Well there was that track day a couple years ago when the 2 drag cars came down the straight away into the rider's meeting, trying to locate the drag strip.
Oh TMP, you so crazy
I was there once when some drag race idiot and his young kid on an ATV rode out onto the track while a session was out there...
I once came head-to-head with another rider going the wrong way between T2 and T1. He took a wrong turn into that alternate infield bit that is never used and got lost. Not sure what he thought the cones were there for.
I'm not making this up.
I'm not making this up.
People go the wrong way through cones at Grand Bend too. I have video evidence of that... LOL
Then he yelled at me because I swore in front of his daughter.
Ha, I forgot about that part. Wonder how many babies that girl has now.
Heck, I've DONE that. Front straight ... right ... longish/slowish left ... right onto short straight ... right/left, why are those cones there OH CRAP, should have been the second left not the first!
Fortunately it was only in a practice session ... and I just carried on and re-joined properly, no against-traffic antics needed.
Ken is not in the track-day business. That the race practice days are typically not filled up and thus allow the privilege of qualified track day riders to join the race practice day is just a bonus for those riders. Having to deal with new riders etc is not the intent of a race practice day - aside from Fawaz's Racer 5 group.
There are a number of track-day providers who won't stand for the conditions shown in the photo on the front page. Need names? Pro 6 Cycle, Rider's Choice are two that I have experience with. Certainly there are others.
There are some other track-day providers (and this is not isolated to any specific track) that deserve to be shamed into mending their ways - and I'd like nothing more than of those providers mended their ways!!
If you go to rider's meeting and there are unprotected hazards that ought to be dealt with, point it out.
If you go to rider's meeting and there is no ambulance, ask where it is.
If tech inspection is a joke, do your own - on your bike, and on your friend's bikes.
By the way, I should mention that criticism is not isolated to low-level track-day providers. On the now-gone Cherrypicker website, CSBK was roundly and publicly criticized last year, by MANY racers, for (A) not listening to their participants with regards to safety concerns that could have and should have been addressed, and (B) not paying attention when, subsequent to ignoring their participants, they had what should have been a wake-up call when someone crashed in practice at Mont-Tremblant and hit the air fence very close to the end. It ought to have been easily foreseeable at that point that someone could crash and end up 20 feet further along, where there was no protection whatsoever (and where there HAD been protection in prior years). The next day ... that's what happened. RIP JR.
SOAR is a racing series. They provide racing events. Track day companies provide track days.
And to say an industry insider has no right to comment on track safety is just...lol. come on.
But you're right that riding at TMP is much safer than "pushing the limits on the backroads". Riding 150 in an 80 just to make that kink in the road vaguely challenging is a good way to get arrested or dead. Even if you never exceed a spirited street pace all day you will have way more fun, be safer, and be more socially responsible on the track. Turn 12 at TMP with no hay bales is "dangerous" for guys trying to set lap times. It is still safer than going the same pace on any corner of the same radius on any public road with oncoming traffic and possibly gravel or sand at the apex. Sportbikes on public roads are basically pointless. On the track they make sense.
Ken has more than stepped up to the plate. He did what he could with TMP. He influenced the layout at Grand Bend with an eye towards reducing risk. He tried to influence RDT, but others were making the decisions and not listening.
When you have been in this business as long as Ken has (and as long as I have), and you know people who died or were paralyzed in situations that ought to have been easily preventable, it changes your perspective. "Perfection" is of course not possible to achieve, but if you know of a risk-reduction measure that is practical and effective, and you don't do it, that's negligence, and that's not acceptable. In this case, it's known that the section of wall should have hay bales along it, it has been done in the past, the haybales were still on site (poor condition is still better than nothing), so why weren't they there?
TMP without the hay bales is still better than running the back roads. On a track day, just back off a smidge through that corner and change your line a bit to ensure that you can make it. Problem is that not everyone knows to do that. When the lap timers come out, things change.
N3WMAN
Well-known member
LOL
Argue with someone who's credentials you don't know about a place you've never been, and call him wrong. That's a good one.
Last time i did TMP was about 5 yrs ago.Gates opened late....tech was done late....marshalls (term used loosely) were late and then an hour after we were supposed to be out i asked the starter why there was a Mercedes out in T2 with a carload of passengers.He told me that it was the owner (Uli) showing his relatives from overseas his racetrack.REFUND PLEASE!!!! Got my refund at the gate in the form of a raincheck,Never been back.
I know,i know...i'm a cranky old man.
I know,i know...i'm a cranky old man.
Well, I tried to stay out of this but,,, this is nuts! This comment is why you need protection at TMP ".e. the lack of novice and maybe even intermediate level rider spots "
I'm pretty sure that bump at the apex of the last corner is still there and bigger. I'm pretty sure that the cement is still pretty hard. Novice,Intermediate,Expert,,100KPH is 100KPH. Novice riders have more accidents at the entry to apex then any other group.
So to accept a track day provider that neglects past safety is like going to a shooting range with no rules.
Ken is not just making stuff up. When I helped him do the haybales there,, we put 8 bales in a bag and then we put those bags 2 feet from the wall.
There was some actual thought to "your" safety.
Yes I get the fact that there are new people. But new people have not seen things like Ken or I have,,,as others. When you are at the track and see 6 air lifts and 3 deaths in one day,Pocono,, you really take a step back. When you have to put a paramedic up against the ambulance, Sanair,,, and threaten him to drive your buddy to the hospital,,you take another step back.
When you see a track day provider or track completely ignore what has been learned over the last 20 years,, you get P#@#@#...
FACT,, some one will have to get serioulsy hurt for TMP and you new people to get Ken's point.
Once you accept 0 safety as the norm,,,that's just a bad day.
After 35 years I have seen some really bad stuff and I don't want you or anybody else to be another bad memory.
Take some time learn some facts and as Brian P says,, step up and ask questions. If they are a track day provider then they can "man" up and
consider your life. What's it going to cost for a few bales,,really,,, don't think track day riders are any safer then racers,again,,100KPH for a trackday rider is a 100KPH for a racer.
Safety starts in your own pit! Take an interest and make a difference!
N3WMAN
Well-known member
The days run by Uli are a joke.
The days run by GWB are actually among some of the best in terms of tech(They checked the spoke tension on my supermoto) and rider's meeting I have seen. The GTAM days have always been good too.
Back on topic.
Brian, like I said, not to take anything away from Ken and what he has done for the racing community, I don't see him stepping up for trackday riders. That's ok...I don't expect him to.
However, I don't see any value bashing others who are willing to put up their money and to take a financial risk to provide trackdays to others. Is it perfect? No. But, until your the person willing to cut the cheque for safety equipment I think you should try supporting them and not hating on them. I'll leave it at that...
you should probably just stop
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