What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"? | GTAMotorcycle.com

What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

油井緋色

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As topic states.

Someone told me that their quote to be insured as a secondary driver is going to be higher because her license class is G2M2 (I call ******** on this, but I want to double check).

After talking to them, I vaguely recall reading on GTAM that all insurance companies must provide you with a quote (they cannot reject you, but can give you ridiculous quotes) and the quoted price cannot be based on how long you have been continuously insured.

True or false to all 3 questions and with sources please. I'd really appreciate it!
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

I've seen the regulations, but Insurance Companies are not practising this whatsoever. I'm with DesJardin for years three and four of insurance coverage.

On year two i got a quote from them and it was ~$5500/yr. Year three it dropped to $1000? And I was explicitly told that it was because of my consecutive years of "insurance experience".

Some companies like TD give you a 5% loyalty discount each consecutive year you keep uninterrupted coverage with them .

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Having an experienced primary driver, doesn't really help an inexperienced secondary driver. The secondary may enjoy some of the primary driver's policy discounts: home, conviction free, group, boat, cottage, multi-car... but that's about it.

IIRC Vifferfun has said this many times, that the rate is based on the driver with the highest risk. So if the Primary Driver has a squeaky clean GM license for 50 years, but decides to put his 16 year old G1M1 grandson as a "secondary driver"... his premium will be based on his grandson.

The whole secondary, casual driver is just semantics. Nothing short of filling out an "excluded driver endorsement" will drop the rate.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

I've seen the regulations, but Insurance Companies are not practising this whatsoever. I'm with DesJardin for years three and four of insurance coverage.

On year two i got a quote from them and it was ~$5500/yr. Year three it dropped to $1000? And I was explicitly told that it was because of my consecutive years of "insurance experience".

Some companies like TD give you a 5% loyalty discount each consecutive year you keep uninterrupted coverage with them .

_____________________________

Having an experienced primary driver, doesn't really help an inexperienced secondary driver. The secondary may enjoy some of the primary driver's policy discounts: home, conviction free, group, boat, cottage, multi-car... but that's about it.

IIRC Vifferfun has said this many times, that the rate is based on the driver with the highest risk. So if the Primary Driver has a squeaky clean GM license for 50 years, but decides to put his 16 year old G1M1 grandson as a "secondary driver"... his premium will be based on his grandson.

The whole secondary, casual driver is just semantics. Nothing short of filling out an "excluded driver endorsement" will drop the rate.

That's not entirely true. The rate for a secondary/occasional driver under the age of 25 is a stand alone rate. It's principal operator PLUS occasional driver. After age 25 insurance companies use a blended rate where they ale the principal and the occasional and use a rate more towards the middle of their experience.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

Rating on length of continuous is illegal: https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/autobulletins/archives/Pages/a-06_97.aspx

They get around it with some ******** about discounts, and it really should be addressed.

Length of time LICENSED however, is a major factor, as it should be. (As opposed to, pay us lots now, and you won't have to pay us quite so much later -- that's literally extortion)

If a broker tells you something about length of continuous insurance affecting your rate, call them on that. Then get information about the underwriter that is taking it into account, then report them to the ombudsman.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

Moving to the insurance sub forum.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

Rating on length of continuous is illegal: https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/auto/autobulletins/archives/Pages/a-06_97.aspx

They get around it with some ******** about discounts, and it really should be addressed.

Length of time LICENSED however, is a major factor, as it should be. (As opposed to, pay us lots now, and you won't have to pay us quite so much later -- that's literally extortion)

If a broker tells you something about length of continuous insurance affecting your rate, call them on that. Then get information about the underwriter that is taking it into account, then report them to the ombudsman.

The "regulation" is so vaguely written one could drive a big rig through it. It says they can't rate you on "continuous period of insurance" BUT it doesn't say they can't rate you with "loyalty discounts" now even if they were called before the fsco, They would simply state that they were offering a "loyalty discount". They didn't state the "loyalty discount" was based on your being insured with them continuously, they could state that it meant because you purchased insurance every year from "any" insurer in Ontario they have decided to "honor" their discount.

You can report them until the cows come home, it isn't going to make one iota of a difference. Not to mention your constantly complaining that the price of insurance is too high and yet you want people to call and have this "discount" canceled so we can ALL pay more, now that is some great logic right there...lol
 
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Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

The "regulation" is so vaguely written one could drive a big rig through it. It says they can't rate you on "continuous period of insurance" BUT it doesn't say they can't rate you with "loyalty discounts" now even if they were called before the fsco, They would simply state that they were offering a "loyalty discount". They didn't state the "loyalty discount" was based on your being insured with them continuously, they could state that it meant because you purchased insurance every year from "any" insurer in Ontario they have decided to "honor" their discount.

You can report them until the cows come home, it isn't going to make one iota of a difference. Not to mention your constantly complaining that the price of insurance is too high and yet you want people to call and have this "discount" canceled so we can ALL pay more, now that is some great logic right there...lol

It's not about cancelling the discount, it's about exposing the industry. The government is lazily trying to fix what we have, when we need to *overhaul* the system; start from the ground up.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

You're fighting an uphill battle arguing with the screw it nothing will ever change crowd. The only reason it's that out of control here for insurance is exactly that mentality.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

It's not about cancelling the discount, it's about exposing the industry. The government is lazily trying to fix what we have, when we need to *overhaul* the system; start from the ground up.

Hey I agree the system is broken, but it is unlikely to change anytime soon.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

油井緋色;2154606 said:
After talking to them, I vaguely recall reading on GTAM that all insurance companies must provide you with a quote (they cannot reject you, but can give you ridiculous quotes) and the quoted price cannot be based on how long you have been continuously insured.

No, they do not have to provide you anything unless they want to do business with you.

EXAMPLE 1 - If you go to greypower.com and ask for a quote but are younger than 50, Trafalgar Insurance does not have to give you a quote. It clearly says "Not everyone will qualify for a quote"... are they discriminating based on age? Sure they are, but it is legal - they can chose their target market.

EXAMPLE 2 - If you go to ridersplus.com and want to insure a super-sport, they can refuse to give you a quote. They have chosen to not insure certain bikes, and they don't have to give you the time of day.

EXAMPLE 3 - The Co-operators insurance will refuse quotes to people with certain driving records.

As far as I know, it is legal to refuse vehicles based on age (vintage), classification (super-sport), etc. etc. etc. Also, they can refuse to insure people based on age, postal code, driving record, etc. etc. etc.

I think you may be recalling Facility insurance... since insurance is mandatory in Ontario, there has to be always someone willing to take on risky people and risky vehicles .... that does not mean that every company has to do it.
 
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Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

No, they do not have to provide you anything unless they want to do business with you.

EXAMPLE 1 - If you go to greypower.com and ask for a quote but are younger than 50, Trafalgar Insurance does not have to give you a quote. It clearly says "Not everyone will qualify for a quote"... are they discriminating based on age? Sure they are, but it is legal - they can chose their target market.

EXAMPLE 2 - If you go to ridersplus.com and want to insure a super-sport, they can refuse to give you a quote. They have chosen to not insure certain bikes, and they don't have to give you the time of day.

EXAMPLE 3 - The Co-operators insurance will refuse quotes to people with certain driving records.

As far as I know, it is legal to refuse vehicles based on age (vintage), classification (super-sport), etc. etc. etc. Also, they can refuse to insure people based on age, postal code, driving record, etc. etc. etc.

I think you may be recalling Facility insurance... since insurance is mandatory in Ontario, there has to be always someone willing to take on risky people and risky vehicles .... that does not mean that every company has to do it.

An insurance company must file their "eligibility criteria" and it must be approved by the regulator before it is used. since Grey Power is focused purely on senior operators, they would have filed this as an eligibility criteria; however, The Co-operators wouldn't be able to refuse someone under 50yo because it wasn't filed.
 
Re: What are the laws surrounding insurance quotes based on "years insured"?

A little off topic but interesting (I think). When I bought my Daytona in 2008 they asked all the questions about license, how long, accidents, etc. Then they asked about continuous insurance and I advised them I hadn't owned a bike in years. They asked if I could provide proof of ever having a motorcycle insured and when I did the quote dropped. My last insurance was over 10 yrs prior but it saved me a couple hundred dollars. I guess it's their way of verifying that you have actually owned/ridden a bike rather than someone who has had their license for years without every really riding.
 

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