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some proud owners here

Just because you dont understand something doesn't mean that the person posting it is "dumb".

Here, have a read. http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/05/20/what-explains-gms-problems-with-the-uaw/


"Labor costs for a typical UAW worker at a GM plant were by some estimates $73 per hour—compared to the $44 per hour for workers at non-unionized Toyota and Honda plants in the U.S."

"Or take the infamous “jobs bank”: surplus workers, rather than getting laid off, would receive 95% of their full salaries plus benefits while the company waited to reassign them."

First off, let's get something straight. I didn't call the poster "dumb"...........I commented on the "amount of dumb" on this site, after not logging on for 6 months. Trust me, it has got "more dumb". Take 6 months off and see for yourself.

I only worked my whole working life in an auto assembly plant prior to retirement. I actually do know what goes on.
Please don't tell me you think this makes sense, or if you do, carry on and explain it to my dumb ***: "Too much money goes to the unions to make a decent cars".

Do you know any auto assembly workers? Do they make anywhere near $73 / hour?...............that's what I thought.
"Some estimates" are for your viewing pleasure only.
Since unions have been broken down, battered, have you noticed how the economy has shaped up? Not as good as you thought, huh? Estimate that!
 
At least Chrysler made the viper and didn't just copy it onto their new corvette :D

I actually can't name a gm I would even entertain the idea of owning. Chrysler at least has one or two.

TBH the American makes a competitive truck but that's where it ends.
 
I have built toyotas for about a decade now, and I highly recommend them to anyone.

Our wage is roughly around the $70 mark when you take in benefits, pension, and hourly.

All the union guys that lost there job over the years have ended up at Toyota, and now sparking a potential for a unifor to get it.

I grew up in a CAW house hold, and a lot of family had worked for the CAW shops, and most (not all) are very anti-union.

Unions were great 40 years ago, but with changes to labour laws and health and safety, i believe they are not needed anymore, unless you want to get paid the same for doing less.

I had a Colorado that I sold 2 weeks after i went to Forbes motors to replace a burnt our signal bulb. $25 for a new bulb only. Shame on you GM
 
Yep, basically a new elcomino (sp?)

You can always relive your El Camino dream. The Avalanche sold so well, they stopped making them. Avalanche? Who comes up with these names? :lol:

Im sure you can pick up a left over, it looks particularly smashing in Rust colour and surely can be found at your local chevy dealer near you.

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I already have a truck which I like quite a bit. It's not a Honda though, I actually need to tow things on occasion.

Yes Ridgeline is a much better name....

The Avalanche isn't the only truck available from GM, it was obviously a targeted market which Honda decided it could compete in. Not a fan of the Avalanche but I'll take it over the Honda any day.

We all know your a honda fanboy, I get it, Hondas the best, domestic vehicles suck.
 
Sadly most domestics do suck but the Ridgeline is a piece of **** just the same. Sorry fanboi but dricked is right. The gm at least can tow more than a case of beer
 
But does it catch fire? If I'm buying a truckette, I want the option of risk of fire to be part of the package.
 
And when you need a truck where do you go, Toyota or Honda lol?

Frankly, for a full size, the Ford. The new aluminum body on the 2015, and its 700 pound savings, will make a better driving, more fuel economic truck, and turn the industry on its head. The competition is caught napping. And this much mass production aluminum will bring prices down and introduce widespread adoption in aluminum made cars.

Good job. Great thinking like this, along with great trucks, and best selling sales crown for the last thousand years or so, means they never have to ask the gov't for help.

They must be doing something right.
 
And when you want an actual full size not a mid size truck? Fords diesels leave much to be desired, don't tell a ford guy that though.
 
Do you know any auto assembly workers? Do they make anywhere near $73 / hour?...............that's what I thought.
"Some estimates" are for your viewing pleasure only.
Since unions have been broken down, battered, have you noticed how the economy has shaped up? Not as good as you thought, huh? Estimate that!

Slow down and understand what is being said. Labour cost and what the actual auto assembly worker makes are two very different things.

Wage is only one part of labour cost, there are also benefits and payroll taxes to be consider, all of which are generally higher with unionized workers. Add all that together and the difference in labour cost could easily reach the suggested $29/h. Now multiply that by the 7000 jobs Toyota estimates for Cambridge and Woodstock plants combined..... Thats $203,300/h MORE!! ​Not chump change. Can you see how Toyota can turn a profit while building NEW plants in North America.

As for unions, I feel they have their place, but they almost always just become another useless layer of bureaucracy. Look at the steel industry, and two 100 year old companies;

Stelco - Unionized, and now all but gone
Dofasco - No Union, still there and expanding

Now I admit some of the Defasco employee's good wages and benefits can be attributed to being across the road from Stelco, and Defasco's fear of the Unions. But the Union all but doomed Stelco with their incredulous reactions when asked for concessions in 2003, despite the company losing millions, month after month for almost 2 straight years. The CEO of 30 years resigned and the ball started down the slope. Now there is more to the story then that I admit, but the following Bankruptcy, bailouts and shady dealings of a new (ex-US Steel Exec) CEO, all started with an impossible Labour Cost/Earning ratio which the Union refused to acknowledge.

IMO, unions would still be quite viable if they didn't get the blinders on, and just try and take more and more with every contract, regardless of the consequences.
 
Frankly, for a full size, the Ford. The new aluminum body on the 2015, and its 700 pound savings, will make a better driving, more fuel economic truck, and turn the industry on its head. The competition is caught napping. And this much mass production aluminum will bring prices down and introduce widespread adoption in aluminum made cars.

Good job. Great thinking like this, along with great trucks, and best selling sales crown for the last thousand years or so, means they never have to ask the gov't for help.

They must be doing something right.

I'm actually intrested to see if your prediction on the Aluminum holds true. I see it going the opposite way as Aluminum is a mined material and when demand for things that must be dug out of the ground goes up, prices usually follow.

The Repair cost on collisions will also be prohibitively higher and I would suspect insurance prices to reflect this as well.
 
Frankly, for a full size, the Ford. The new aluminum body on the 2015, and its 700 pound savings, will make a better driving, more fuel economic truck, and turn the industry on its head. The competition is caught napping. And this much mass production aluminum will bring prices down and introduce widespread adoption in aluminum made cars.

Good job. Great thinking like this, along with great trucks, and best selling sales crown for the last thousand years or so, means they never have to ask the gov't for help.

They must be doing something right.

I not so sure about Aluminum, of course it sounds good on paper, but didn't Jaguar once had an Al body?

I'm not so sure if this will filter into race cars also. Al is not as stiff as steel, hence why some cyclists prefer a steel frame rather than AL. If steel in done properly it can be twice as rigid and just a tad heavier.

Another thing, Al needs to be welded differently than steel ie. more complicated. I wonder if the cost of the new F150 will be more?
They have to change existing infrastructure to accommodate the new robots welding Al.

Just thinking aloud here
 
I'm actually intrested to see if your prediction on the Aluminum holds true.

Me too! But everybody laughed a few years ago, when Ford introduced a V6 as their top dog gas engine in their truck. The mere thought of a top line pick up with a V6 was scoffed at.

Yet Ford nailed it. The market spoke, and the more expensive EcoBoost V6 (over the Ford V 8 is setting the sales charts on fire.

I predict the market will speak again, and Ford will have another hit on their hands with the aluminum F150.
 
Aluminum bodies are revolutionary? In the 40s, maybe (and before Sandro starts splitting atoms, on production cars, the 60s).

You're right, Gary. Whole lotta stupid goin' on in here.
 
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Me too! But everybody laughed a few years ago, when Ford introduced a V6 as their top dog gas engine in their truck. The mere thought of a top line pick up with a V6 was scoffed at.

Yet Ford nailed it. The market spoke, and the more expensive EcoBoost V6 (over the Ford V 8 is setting the sales charts on fire.

I predict the market will speak again, and Ford will have another hit on their hands with the aluminum F150.

That is all a result of pure marketing genius. Who ever came up with the term 'ECO Boost' should be given the keys to the CEO'S office. It's nothing more than pre-existing turbo technology and direct injection.

Turbo was a dirty word in the industry... more complex, more to go wrong, higher insurance etc.etc.

ECO Boost... thats hip and trendy... oh, and paint it light green or sky blue.... yeah... hipsters love that .. lol... they really didn't reinvent the wheel on that one... but good on them. The marketing was a home run!
 
Another thing, Al needs to be welded differently than steel ie. more complicated. I wonder if the cost of the new F150 will be more?
They have to change existing infrastructure to accommodate the new robots welding Al.

Just thinking aloud here

They also apparently have to close the truck plants for 13 weeks to retool for this! Big gamble.
 
Aluminum bodies are revolutionary? In the 40s, maybe (and before Sandro starts splitting atoms, on production cars, the 60s).

You're right, Gary. Whole lotta stupid goin' on in here.

Revolutionary? Where you see that? Paraphrasing?

For a high production pickup truck it is a new and interesting idea... though I don't share Sonny's enthusiasm for it. Just going to be too easy to damage and too expensive to fix
 
They also apparently have to close the truck plants for 13 weeks to retool for this! Big gamble.

Most likely that assembly line will only be handling Al. I'm not too sure the robots can do both
 

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