Travel Medical Insurance and Paranoia

Diesel said:

How much is considered sufficient coverage?

I am covered through work with Great West Life up to $100000 for out of country emergency services for trips up to 41 days long, and I would consider that suitable for day trips or overnighters to Buffalo, but for longer trips further from the border and on the bike I am not sure if $100k is sufficient.

Last year I just picked up one of those travel insurance cards you can buy at Loblaws or Superstore, but I never really looked into the details of how much or what I was covered for.

This year I am considering going with a CAA multi-trip or similar.

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One problem with OHIP is that we have no idea what hospitals cost. In Canada I hear averages of $7,000 a day. In the USA it's 50% higher but those are averages. Surgery and ICU will be higher. If you knew what was going to go wrong you could buy accordingly or, wiser yet, stay home.

If the incident involves a motor vehicle your accident benefits kick in but unless you have purchased extra coverage it is limited to $50K CDN.

Outside of accidents there are the things you never think of yourself having. Mine was a pulmonary embolism. Yours could be a kidney stone or appendix attack. Even in Buffalo do you want to be on the Peace Bridge trying to get back to OHIP-land with a one hour wait?

Act of violence doesn't mean squat to the US system. You still pay. Boston Marathon bombing victims have to pay. Since it was an act of terrorism I don't know if the insurers use that as an out.

I would go with a minimum of $250K but better, $1M

Unless you are a medical professional you don't know if the treatments are required. Do you need that $4,000 Scan? Repeat X-rays.

The part that is really P's me off is that it is almost impossible to get FACTS from the insurance business. Who has a good track record, what the odds are etc. All you get is "You should buy more insurance".

What also P's me off is that if it costs $5K to $7K a day here why OHIP only pays 200 to 400 dollars of the tab per day. I guess it would help their bottom line if we all went to the USA as soon as we felt sick.

you can look at Econoglobe - I pay 55 a year - covers everything - I am allowed 14 days away in U S. I have to come back to Canada for 24 hours and then can go back to States. You can make as many trips in a year as you like.

NightShadow said:

you can look at Econoglobe - I pay 55 a year - covers everything - I am allowed 14 days away in U S. I have to come back to Canada for 24 hours and then can go back to States. You can make as many trips in a year as you like.

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On the surface that looks good but in life you tend to get what you pay for. Have you read every word of the policy including definitions?

Do you understand every term?

You will only know if the policy is any good after you have a claim. The little card they give you to carry is not a guarantee of payment for a claim. After you make a claim they go over your health records, OHIP, family GP etc and see if there is a loophole hey can get through.

Even if there is no questionaire there are exclusions. Typically "Traveling against the advice of a doctor, or when there is medical evidence that would say travel is unadviseable. People with AIDS are a no no.

Had a recent operation? Stay home.

How long is recent? 3 months to 3 years depending on the policy.

I would like independant statistics on Econoglobe regarding their claim denial rates etc. Even if Econoglobe gave me figures how would I know they hadn't been manipulated? All of the insurance companies are the same.

I would pay double for insurance if coverage was guaranteed but the system isn't set up that way.

Google "Travel Health insurance problems" and see the complaints. Again, the trustworthyness of internet complaints is questionable. People will lie about their heart condition and then slam the insurer for not paying out for a heart procedure in Florida.

There are dozens if not hundreds of available options and all look good in one way or another. The true test comes when you are most vulnerable, lying in a ICU in Florida and the hospital holding the deed to your house.

I posted the following cut and paste to give an idea of where the confusion arises. I can see an insurance company's problem in setting a rate for a person taking a trip across the USA. If the client has a medical need do they get the $9K treatment or the $60K treatment.

Quoting CBS

"A new government report confirms what many Americans have experienced with their health care -- hospitals charging different prices for the same procedures.

For example, the average inpatient hospital charges for a patient getting a joint replacement may range from $5,300 at a hospital in Ada, Okla. to $223,000 at a hospital in Monterey Park, Calif.

"Geography alone does not account for the differences in treatment and care costs, the report showed. When comparing care costs for a Medicare patient with heart failure, the report showed treatment in Denver can cost anywhere from a low of $21,000 to a high of $46,000. Meanwhile, in Jackson, Miss., heart failure care may cost a low of $9,000 or a high of $51,000.

Consumers can take this data to drive their medical-decision making, health officials said.

The Washington Post points out that Medicare and private insurers typically negotiate lower charges with hospitals, so these costs may not tell the full story. However, if you don't have insurance, that's another story.

"It's true that Medicare and a lot of private insurers never pay the full charge," Renee Hsia, an assistant professor at the University of California at San Francisco Medical School, told the paper. "But you have a lot of private insurance companies where the consumer pays a portion of the charge. For uninsured patients, they face the full bill. In that sense, the price matters."

The new government data on hospital costs can be accessed on CMS.gov.

.© 2013 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Beware of out of province insurance shortfalls as well.


CTV Montreal
Published Saturday, February 15, 2014 6:47PM EST
Last Updated Sunday, February 16, 2014 12:37PM EST
A Montreal area-woman survived a vicious attack by a polar bear in Manitoba, only to receive more than $13,000 in medical bills when she got home.

Erin Greene was working a short-term contract in Churchill, Manitoba last fall, when early one morning she was attacked by a polar bear on the street.

“He bit onto the top of my head and was sort of using his paws as leverage to rip off my scalp essentially,” she explained.

She was saved when a man and his neighbours fought off the bear.

But not before she suffered life-threatening injuries.

“He bit into my shoulders, he scratched my belly, scratched open my knee, and when the man came out to save me, bill, I was about two feet off the ground and the bear was just shaking me in his mouth,” she said.

She was brought by ambulance to a hospital in Churchill, but had lost a lot of blood.

Doctors there decided it would be best to send her to Winnipeg, which is about 1,700 kilometres south of Churchill by train.

She made the trip in an air ambulance.

Last Monday, she received a bill for the ride totaling nearly $12,000.

Add that to the bill for the ground ambulance, and Greene will be paying more than $13,000 for the care she received in Manitoba.

She says she learned the hard way that not every medical expense is taken care of if you are travelling out of province, but within Canada.

"The rule is that if you're in Quebec and you need an air ambulance, so if you're in Northern Quebec and you need to fly to Montreal, that's paid for. if you're in another province, its not," Greene said.

“I mean I don't mind a few thousand, but $12,000-plus? Because she also had to pay the ground ambulance. I don't think that patients should be left to pay that high a bill,” said Johanna Greene, Erin’s mother.

Still, the mom said she’s ecstatic to be able to share a cup of tea with her daughter.

“I thank the lord every day . . . that she's able to go on,” she said.

Greene’s friends are holding fundraisers to help her pay the bill.

She said she will try to dispute the costs, but in the meantime the province of Manitoba has put her on a payment plan for the full amount.

According to Greene, the moral of her story is to never assume you're fully covered for health care even if you're a Canadian travelling within Canada.

“If you're going to another province, you should definitely look into what's covered and get insurance because that's what I would do now,” she said.



Read more: http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/d-d-o-re...ddled-with-hefty-bill-1.1688355#ixzz2uCXuZtJm

Ive heard enough horror stories over the years that I always have at least two if not three policies on the go...one credit card, one family annual plan and the work policy. It's relatively cheap and no worries if the wife decides last minute to go shopping in the US without telling me. If your travel insurance has a detailed health questionnaire to complete...look elsewhere for insurance.

Twotons said:

Ive heard enough horror stories over the years that I always have at least two if not three policies on the go...one credit card, one family annual plan and the work policy. It's relatively cheap and no worries if the wife decides last minute to go shopping in the US without telling me. If your travel insurance has a detailed health questionnaire to complete...look elsewhere for insurance.

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The concern there is claim denial because there was a clause in one or all of the policies saying the insurer only paid out when all other options were exhausted. If all the insurers had that clause the US hospital is still after you for the money. Where you get it isn't their problem.

As I understand it this happened to one GTAMer.

so reading this taking a trip to Ellicotville to do some skiing is just a plain bad idea

Reading two pages, I feel the need to go to a store that can sell me a lot of bubble wrap. I dont think i am ever leaving the house again

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so reading this taking a trip to Ellicotville to do some skiing is just a plain bad idea

Reading two pages, I feel the need to go to a store that can sell me a lot of bubble wrap. I dont think i am ever leaving the house again

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As long as one of your major credit cards covers you and you are under 65 then no problem but make sure you are covered. Most cards are 4 day coverage for under 65 but make sure you check that your's has coverage and what the terms are ( sometimes you have to use the card for something on the trip )

Otherwise just get an annual plan.

Here's a great example of how things work in the US.

While in the Adirondaks, in June 2012, I hit a bear while riding. I didn't go to the hospital till the next day. I spent maybe 8 hours there and ran up a bill of $14,000. Luckily, I bought travel indurance before heading down and I simply sent all the bills to them. It was then that I found out that you can bargain with the hospitals to settle on a lower payment; my $14,000 bill was settled at $7,000 and I didn't have to lift a finger. My motorcycle insurer was pleased as they didn't have to get involved and so my settlement with them over my bike went extremely well.

Bottom line, don't go to the US without travel insurance because, whatever you have through work and OHIP, is not enough. Ever.

suzuki2000 said:

so reading this taking a trip to Ellicotville to do some skiing is just a plain bad idea

Reading two pages, I feel the need to go to a store that can sell me a lot of bubble wrap. I dont think i am ever leaving the house again

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You have nothing to worry about unless that ski trip ends in illness or injury. Purchasing travel insurance to the US cost about $15 for a weekend and gives you complete piece of mind. That said, you can go without the insurance and never have to go the hospital down there; as a matter of fact, chances are really good you'll never need hospitalization. However, if you do, that $5 or $6 a day for coverage will save an awful lot of time and money (as I found out).

When I was 12, I was in Florida on a family vacation. I dove off a 6' canoe rack into what turned out to be 12" of water. Broke my back, spent 6 weeks recovering in hospital. My parents had no insurance. Result? My parents and my grandma both remortgaged their houses to pay the bills. This was in 1985. None of them were amused when I broke my back again in 1998 or my neck in 2001. Now I finally learned to never say "Watch This!"


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suzuki2000 said:

so reading this taking a trip to Ellicotville to do some skiing is just a plain bad idea

Reading two pages, I feel the need to go to a store that can sell me a lot of bubble wrap. I dont think i am ever leaving the house again

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couple years ago in Ellicottville, friend twisted knee and tore everything in it apparently, ski patrol got him off the hill and helped us to the parking lot and 45 minutes later he was in emerg in Ft Erie. Harder to do from Utah or Colorado. He spent two days in hospital and months with rehab following surgery, his whinning all the way probably saved him thousands, cant believe he wouldn't let us stop at duty fee, ungrateful basterd

I live part time in the US and travel infrequently internationally, but I'm insured 4 ways, my company work (with principals that spend a lot of time travelling so picked a policy that's good coverage) , I have CAA+ , my wife has insurance and my BMO world elite travel mastercard has coverage. It could take years to settle a claim, but that's better than a 25yr mortgage or forced sale of a house to cover the debt. Wife is a medical professional so we know what the actual costs can be. Gone are my days of "i'm good to go, nothing will happen". Stuff just happens.

crankcall said:

Gone are my days of "i'm good to go, nothing will happen". Stuff just happens.

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I was reflecting on the past and trips to the states as a kid. We had relatives in Rochester NY. My mom never thought about med insurance. Nor did my wife and I when we took day trips to the US side of the Niagara. Canada didn't have medicare until 1966 IIRC.

I wonder though if the medical professionals and associated investors were less greedy back then. When my grandmother died of cancer in the late 50s there were some serious bills for the family to pay.

Travel medical insurance is one of the most beneficial policies provided by the insurance companies. Buying a medical insurance is beneficial during tough times like illness or surgeries. This will help you financially a lot. The above discussion is very helpful for the ones who have the insurance but could not claim upto the par as well as for the ones who do not have the insurance. They will be motivated to buy the one.

FLOWEN said:

I do not consider $100,000 enough.

A heart attack, or broken arm + wrist could exceed $100,000 easily in the U.S..

Your employer does not value you much. LOL

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perhaps I am insurance happy ... but personal thing is don't ever travel stateside without some kind of coverage ... 100k to me is insufficient, its a scratch...

through work, I have 1 million in coverage for out of province travel insurance ... i also pay for a family plan through TD MelocheMonnex for $130 / yr for any trips UP TO 60 days for a further 5 million. The family plan covers me, wife and kid(s) ~ up to 4 kids / dependents

From my understanding the work coverage goes first and if it exceeds then the TD would kick in to pay anything over the first million.

I lived in the states for a few years and the hospital bills there are ridiculous. I found out I was allergic to shellfish while there, trip to hospital because I had hives after going to Red Lobster, 4 hours in the ER bill was 8k. Contacted insurance as we were in the hospital and they said no problems, just pay for it and they will pay me back, my co-pay at the time (deductible) was the first $100 was me and the rest was them. I got 8k in points (woot!!) and they cut me a cheque for 7900 2 weeks later. Just make sure your CC has a high enough limit to pay first otherwise your screwed

Diesel said:

How much is considered sufficient coverage?

I am covered through work with Great West Life up to $100000 for out of country emergency services for trips up to 41 days long, and I would consider that suitable for day trips or overnighters to Buffalo, but for longer trips further from the border and on the bike I am not sure if $100k is sufficient.

Last year I just picked up one of those travel insurance cards you can buy at Loblaws or Superstore, but I never really looked into the details of how much or what I was covered for.

This year I am considering going with a CAA multi-trip or similar.

Click to expand...

We had a rider go down hard on the last day of a rally a few years back in Deals Gap. He augured his bike in on the dragon and had among other things 2 compound fractures in his legs. It was several weeks and over $250,000 in medical bills by the time he got back to Canada. Luckily he had insurance and was covered.