If you're doing it for your own convenience then it isn't civil disobedience; it's just breaking the law.
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HOV Lanes - any way to petition for use?
- Thread starter EaZ8
- Start date
cbcanada
Banned
What is the real purpose of hov lanes?
To free up lanes for the go bus so they can make more money.
If 50 thousand commuters decided to go 2 in one car.. The hov lanes would we packed,
So whats the point what then?
We take another lane away from us?
In the end what happens? You can drive unless its with 4 people? You see my point ? Its just taking away your rights.
And it because they chose to
Pass new incorrect laws to make up for idiocy...
To free up lanes for the go bus so they can make more money.
If 50 thousand commuters decided to go 2 in one car.. The hov lanes would we packed,
So whats the point what then?
We take another lane away from us?
In the end what happens? You can drive unless its with 4 people? You see my point ? Its just taking away your rights.
And it because they chose to
Pass new incorrect laws to make up for idiocy...
I haven't said anything different.
Your posts are simply self-serving, the Highway Traffic Act gives the HOV lanes some teeth when it comes to penalties: $110 + 3 demerit points. If you were to collect five of these tickets within a two year period, your license will be suspended. You'll most likely be getting a bus pass due to lack of insurance before then.
Lets say you choose to ignore the tickets, then your license will automatically get suspended. And the following traffic stop in the HOV lane will have your vehicle on a hook and impounded for 7-days.
Your solo ventures in the HOV lane will be short-lived. If you want to bring about change, go talk to your local MPP; Kathyleen Wynne was on Reddit today http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1xme9u/ Call their offices, schedule a sitdown and talk about why this is important you.
Being an internet superhero behind a keyboard on this thread isn't going to change anything.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?177047&p=2080938&viewfull=1#post2080938
The conversation is there but it needs revisiting. I don't understand why there's an exemption for single-driver taxis and empty buses.
So what happens when the OPP pull you over and hand you a ticket?
I'm curious about that as well.
I suspect he explains to the constable that this is HIS form of civil disobedience against an unjust law. The officer then says "oh I see, well on your way then have a great day".... NOT
I suspect that after he gets one or two of the HOV lane tickets his form of "civil disobedience/protest" will change. IF it doesn't and he loses his licence and insurance coverage, then KUDOS to him for having the conviction of his cause. Until then you are simply choosing to ignore a law which doesn't fit the OPS definition of a just law.
What if tomorrow I decided that the law which regulates one way streets no longer fits my level of convenience? So I decide I should be allowed to drive the wrong way? Is that too ok as I see it as my form of "civil disobedience"... What a mess the traffic would be then
cbcanada
Banned
You call me an "internet superhero" because i drive on the hov lane ??? So does that mean you are an "internet pansy"
Lol, anyways you are very near sighted and miss the big picture i am getting at. yes i am aware of the laws.. You keep obeying all the laws and see what happens
You are a prime example of social engineering.
To answer the question "what happens if opp pulls me over"
-> I get a ticket?
My whole point was if we all chose to drive on the hov lane then they could not ticket us all.
And we would get the lanes back. God knows we need all the lanes.
Lol, anyways you are very near sighted and miss the big picture i am getting at. yes i am aware of the laws.. You keep obeying all the laws and see what happens
You are a prime example of social engineering.
To answer the question "what happens if opp pulls me over"
-> I get a ticket?
My whole point was if we all chose to drive on the hov lane then they could not ticket us all.
And we would get the lanes back. God knows we need all the lanes.
They do ticket blitzes. Why couldn't they ticket them all? One day a week, alternating days and drivers get dinged. Now what did that solve?
You would be fish in a barrel those days.
I don't have any issues with people who choose to break the law as long as they don't put others at risk and accept the consequences of their actions, as cbcanada seems to do.
Whether it's a useful from of civil disobedience or not is another question.
Certainly, or if politicians aren't aware of the protest then it can't have any effect, and that would clearly be the case here. Now if everyone drove on the HOV lanes as he suggested then that would be different as it would make the news and stir up public debate on the issue. But as it stands this format of protest isn't serving anyone other than the protester.
Whether it's a useful from of civil disobedience or not is another question.
Certainly, or if politicians aren't aware of the protest then it can't have any effect, and that would clearly be the case here. Now if everyone drove on the HOV lanes as he suggested then that would be different as it would make the news and stir up public debate on the issue. But as it stands this format of protest isn't serving anyone other than the protester.
That's if it can even be considered a form of protest, instead of simple selfishness.
The topic of this thread started off as a way to get HOV lanes opened up to MOTORCYCLES, not if they are to be "protested" as a measure which was implemented by "liars, thieves and the kind"
Therfore keeping to that point and cbcanada's method of "protest" that if "we all drove in them they couldn't ticket us all".. Given the relatively SMALL number of motorcyclist using the highways on any given day, I would respectfully disagree and say that they could ticket us all. I agree if cbcanada is willing to accept the consequences of his actions then kudos to him. If on the other hand he uses them in his cage too then that is a completely different animal, he isn't making an impact at all and there is by default no "protest" but rather just another selfish person who feels it is their god given right to ignore the laws, and by extension the rule of society. Given the relatively low number of people who choose to violate this law then society in general must be accepting of the rule of law, as it is currently written and enforced..
I would again respectfully state that he is using the "i don't like this law so I am going to CHOOSE to break it under the guise of a "protest." I would suggest if he really wanted to "protest" he would drive at the same pace of the rest of the lanes of traffic to show that this lane should be given no advantage over the rest, and that he would drive in it when he knew the OPP would be present. If no "official" sees him "protesting" then what effect does the protest have??? That would be akin to the black block from the G20 "protesting" in Sault Ste Marie, (with two people), during the Toronto G20 and not announcing it nor having ANY media coverage.
there was a thread about a fellow who got a ticket for riding in the HOV lane, (by his account for a few hundred metres), and he got a ticket... MOST of those who replied stated that he deserved the ticket. But if we call it a "protest" then do we support it even though the "protest" will have no impact on changing the law as cbcanada states is his intent of the "protest"?
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Remarkable; I had virtually this same post mentally framed, but was waiting until I got home from work to post it. The one difference in my own involved a South Park (and Maury Povich) quote; "You don't know me. You don't know me! I do what I want!"
ever since those lanes were brought in, i've had a problem with them, on Highways.
especially the 404.
the HOV lane on the 404 is a danger, as majority entering that lane are travelling below 100kmh, so what happens is they enter the highway, cross 3 lanes, sit in the passing lane restricting traffic until the HOV lane becomes available, at which point they cross over still doing 90-100kmh. At a later point, those same drivers merge back into the passing lane, which lets be honest avg speed is 120-140kmh, they of course are still travelling at 90-100kmh creating a lot of risk and danger.
I would suggest the lane should be converted to a 120kmh lane, especially with the double solid white lines as dividers, it creates a safer buffer for higher speeds.
as for just "protesting" and driving/riding in them now, well, it doesn't change anything.
just as someone else posted, "disagreeing with speed limits, so speeding as protest".
nothing will change. the system is flawed. government is making money, LOTS of money over speeding tickets, and keeping the same drivers who are barely able to drive happy with these "baby" speed limits and HOV lanes.
either be docile, conform, give in buy a corolla and call it at 10kmh below the limit, or face the tickets, suspensions, court dates, insurance headaches/fees.
the noose will only tighten as years pass.
sad, but true.
also, i agree with another post that stated you're not endangering anyone, what you choose to do is up to you as you face the consequences of tickets. same applies with majority of drivers on the road who travel 20-30kmh above the current archaic speed limits.
especially the 404.
the HOV lane on the 404 is a danger, as majority entering that lane are travelling below 100kmh, so what happens is they enter the highway, cross 3 lanes, sit in the passing lane restricting traffic until the HOV lane becomes available, at which point they cross over still doing 90-100kmh. At a later point, those same drivers merge back into the passing lane, which lets be honest avg speed is 120-140kmh, they of course are still travelling at 90-100kmh creating a lot of risk and danger.
I would suggest the lane should be converted to a 120kmh lane, especially with the double solid white lines as dividers, it creates a safer buffer for higher speeds.
as for just "protesting" and driving/riding in them now, well, it doesn't change anything.
just as someone else posted, "disagreeing with speed limits, so speeding as protest".
nothing will change. the system is flawed. government is making money, LOTS of money over speeding tickets, and keeping the same drivers who are barely able to drive happy with these "baby" speed limits and HOV lanes.
either be docile, conform, give in buy a corolla and call it at 10kmh below the limit, or face the tickets, suspensions, court dates, insurance headaches/fees.
the noose will only tighten as years pass.
sad, but true.
also, i agree with another post that stated you're not endangering anyone, what you choose to do is up to you as you face the consequences of tickets. same applies with majority of drivers on the road who travel 20-30kmh above the current archaic speed limits.
Not to stray too off topic, but last summer i carpooled on the 404 and took the HOV lane from the 401 to where it ends around HWY 7 regardless of traffic conditions in the other lanes. I would always enter the HOV lane at 95kph (cruise control); naturally, fast approaching and tailgating vehicles believe that my cruise-control will magically speed up... and alas it doesn't. Not a single vehicle would pace my car for the whole duration, they would illegally cross the hashed lines (protected by do-not cross signs) and either overtake me or leave the HOV lane entirely.
I called it my silent protest of the ridiculously low posted limits. But on multi-lane highways, I always keep to the far right... i leave L1 alone.
Rather than everyone speeding up, everyone should drive at the limit just to show the government how ridiculous it is. Of-course, that'll fall to deaf ears...
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I have a friend who's a traffic engineer with the MTO and he said they have studies where the average speed on the HOV lanes is +130km/hr.
There are apparently projects to create more than one HOV lane where one is the "express" and the other is the "collector" and have increased speed limits there. I believe i made a post here about this... let me see if i can find it.
I called it my silent protest of the ridiculously low posted limits. But on multi-lane highways, I always keep to the far right... i leave L1 alone.
Rather than everyone speeding up, everyone should drive at the limit just to show the government how ridiculous it is. Of-course, that'll fall to deaf ears...
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I have a friend who's a traffic engineer with the MTO and he said they have studies where the average speed on the HOV lanes is +130km/hr.
There are apparently projects to create more than one HOV lane where one is the "express" and the other is the "collector" and have increased speed limits there. I believe i made a post here about this... let me see if i can find it.
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your friend is correct. i have a degree in civil engineering, and there are studies all over the developed world clearly showing increased safety and lower accident rates with higher speed limits.
on all our roads, the average speeds are 20-30kmh over the current limits. on highway, 140 is very common and around the world 140 is average speeds on highways. Canada is way behind europe and even some of the states, which is sad.
the multi lane HOV is something that i would not support, as it is just trying to solve a problem we don't have.
Increased speed limits with proper enforcement (not just hiding behind a tree on a downhill and ticketing ppl doing 20 over) will solve a high degree of our congestion and improve road safety. but then again… as you said, deaf ears.
also, our highways were designed with design speed of 140-160kmh, which means engineers who designed the hwy deem it safe to travel at speeds even higher than that. the design speed simply means that taking a curve/corner on highway at 150kmh will move you slightly in your seat, and more so with speeds above that.
on all our roads, the average speeds are 20-30kmh over the current limits. on highway, 140 is very common and around the world 140 is average speeds on highways. Canada is way behind europe and even some of the states, which is sad.
the multi lane HOV is something that i would not support, as it is just trying to solve a problem we don't have.
Increased speed limits with proper enforcement (not just hiding behind a tree on a downhill and ticketing ppl doing 20 over) will solve a high degree of our congestion and improve road safety. but then again… as you said, deaf ears.
also, our highways were designed with design speed of 140-160kmh, which means engineers who designed the hwy deem it safe to travel at speeds even higher than that. the design speed simply means that taking a curve/corner on highway at 150kmh will move you slightly in your seat, and more so with speeds above that.
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yes, banked curve and crown are factors. but still the speed outcome is above 130kmh.
these are accounted for in designing.
the only issue would be the varying radii on on/off ramps, which even now have different limits anyway, and drivers are required to adjusts speed accordingly.
last time i actually looked at the designs of 401, 400, and 404 was around 2010. i was doing a thesis about the HOV lanes being better suited for faster traffic flow (120).
it was well accepted, but everyone was well aware i am just a dreamer. lol
these are accounted for in designing.
the only issue would be the varying radii on on/off ramps, which even now have different limits anyway, and drivers are required to adjusts speed accordingly.
last time i actually looked at the designs of 401, 400, and 404 was around 2010. i was doing a thesis about the HOV lanes being better suited for faster traffic flow (120).
it was well accepted, but everyone was well aware i am just a dreamer. lol
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