Using the Highway 407 ETR without paying- just have to declare bankruptcy ! | GTAMotorcycle.com

Using the Highway 407 ETR without paying- just have to declare bankruptcy !

MarcosSantiago

Well-known member
:rolleyes:

Well, it is not as easy as declaring bankruptcy.

Short version - Basically, the 407 Highway had a way to get their money back when people declared bankruptcy - the private Highway was putting itself before other creditors, by forcing the driver to either pay, or not renew plates. The courts are not in agreement.


See - http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201..._permits_to_bankrupt_drivers_court_rules.html

and also http://canlii.ca/t/g2dx7


Hwy. 407 debts no reason to deny vehicle permits to bankrupt drivers, court rules
Outstanding Highway 407ETR bills are not a valid reason to withhold the vehicle permit of a bankrupt Ontario resident, the province’s Court of Appeal has ruled.

By: Wendy Gillis News reporter, Published on Thu Jan 02 2014

Outstanding Highway 407ETR bills are not a valid reason for the province to withhold the vehicle permit of a bankrupt driver, Ontario’s Court of Appeal has ruled.

A series of recent court battles have attempted to resolve a key question that pits federal legislation against provincial: if a driver doesn’t pay the 407ETR toll, should the province take away their vehicle permit?

The simple answer, according to the provincial Highway 407 Act, is yes. When drivers don’t cough up the money to use the toll road, the highway company contacts the province, which must ultimately refuse to issue a vehicle permit.

The arrangement allows 407ETR to enforce payment on a highway that has no means to refuse access to any drivers — even those who don’t pay to use it.


But the issue becomes complicated when the driver ducking 407ETR fees files for bankruptcy.

Generally, federal laws say debts that existed prior to a bankruptcy declaration are erased following the distribution of their assets to indebted parties. Referred to as “the fresh start” principle, the spirit behind the legislation is to allow insolvent people to get back on their feet.

Lawyers representing 407ETR toll-skippers — some of whom have accrued tabs in the tens of thousands of dollars — have therefore argued that the provincial 407ETR law contravenes the federal bankruptcy act.

A recent Ontario appeal court ruling agreed. The Dec. 19 decision ruled that the 407 ETR arrangement with the province is “incompatible with the fresh start or financial rehabilitation purpose” of Canada’s bankruptcy laws.

“Indeed, it frustrates (bankruptcy) legislation’s heart and the very foundation on which insolvency legislation stands,” wrote Justice Sarah Pepall.

The ruling was met with satisfaction by Hamilton lawyer David Thompson, who has for over a year been making the argument that the provincial legislation was unfair to insolvent drivers.
“This decision goes a long way, as far as we’re concerned,” he said.

Thompson is one of the lawyers seeking certification of a class-action lawsuit for a handful of insolvent drivers denied their vehicle permits, despite being declared bankrupt, because of unpaid 407ETR tolls.

But the ruling is not decisive on all aspects of the issue. Thompson said two important concerns are still yet to be resolved: whether the highway company’s power to withhold a vehicle permit is lost as soon a driver files for bankruptcy (known as bankruptcy assignment) or if they must emerge from the process (bankruptcy discharge); and at what point during the process 407ETR loses its right to charge interest on amounts owed.

Kevin Sack, 407ETR’s vice president of communications, said the company is “very carefully reviewing” the latest decision.
He points out that it reverses a previous Ontario Superior Court ruling by Justice Francis Newbould, in which he determined that a motor vehicle licence was a “privilege” separate from bankruptcy legislation.

“In the interim, 407ETR has filed an application seeking a stay of the decision of the Court of Appeal,” Sack wrote in an email to the Star.

A stay would mean the ruling’s decision would temporarily not be applied, a move often taken in advance of an appeal.
Thompson said he is going to oppose the stay and move forward with the class-action suit.

“We had essentially agreed to sort of put it on hold pending this Court of Appeal ruling. Our sense now is that we’re going to start prosecuting” and arrange a court date for authorization to proceed as a class-action suit, he said.
 
After the government sold the 407 that should of been changed and gone against someone's credit score and not force people to pay a bill to get their vehicle permit.
 
407ETR can still withhold your vehicle permit for non-payment; however, it appears the Court of Appeals in Ontario have ruled that drivers who have declared bankruptcy can not have their vehicle permits withheld.

So drivers who're dodging payments still have to pay-up, unless they declare bankruptcy.
 
Since 407 is privately owned, they in no way should have access to the MTO's power to withhold vehicle permits.
The 407, a private company sells a service.
I sell a service.
If someone tries not to pay me for my service, can I march into an MTO and ask them to withhold a driver's vehicle permit due to non-payment for services rendered? Nope. Why should the 407 be given rights to these powers of debt collection that no other private enterprise has access to?
 
Since 407 is privately owned, they in no way should have access to the MTO's power to withhold vehicle permits.
The 407, a private company sells a service.
I sell a service.
If someone tries not to pay me for my service, can I march into an MTO and ask them to withhold a driver's vehicle permit due to non-payment for services rendered? Nope. Why should the 407 be given rights to these powers of debt collection that no other private enterprise has access to?

Thank Mike Harris and the PC party for this situation .
 
Since 407 is privately owned, they in no way should have access to the MTO's power to withhold vehicle permits.
The 407, a private company sells a service.
I sell a service.
If someone tries not to pay me for my service, can I march into an MTO and ask them to withhold a driver's vehicle permit due to non-payment for services rendered? Nope. Why should the 407 be given rights to these powers of debt collection that no other private enterprise has access to?

Exactly! The best part is 407 doesn't show on a personal credit report so you'd have no idea. Just another awesome scam in the greatest province ever :rolleyes:

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk
 
Since 407 is privately owned, they in no way should have access to the MTO's power to withhold vehicle permits.
The 407, a private company sells a service.
I sell a service.
If someone tries not to pay me for my service, can I march into an MTO and ask them to withhold a driver's vehicle permit due to non-payment for services rendered? Nope. Why should the 407 be given rights to these powers of debt collection that no other private enterprise has access to?

I don't know where people got the impression that 407 was privately owned. As far as I know the operation of the highway was leased out; the Government owns the property and collects money from the company running the operations. The toll costs are horendously expensive, but on the other hand the highway is extremly well maintained and a lot of money has been spent in upgrading the highway to match traffic flows. I use it almost every day but because of the cost I look to take other routes where possible to reduce costs.


..Tom



The new 407 East wil be run by the government when it opens.
 
Since 407 is privately owned, they in no way should have access to the MTO's power to withhold vehicle permits.
The 407, a private company sells a service.
I sell a service.
If someone tries not to pay me for my service, can I march into an MTO and ask them to withhold a driver's vehicle permit due to non-payment for services rendered? Nope. Why should the 407 be given rights to these powers of debt collection that no other private enterprise has access to?

Ignoring that the highway isn't privately owned, when 407 East opens should the government be allowed to withhold license renewals for non-payment of its use? It will be both owned and operated by the Provincial Government.


..Tom
 
Ignoring that the highway isn't privately owned, when 407 East opens should the government be allowed to withhold license renewals for non-payment of its use? It will be both owned and operated by the Provincial Government.


..Tom

I`m pretty sure once the east part of the 407 is built.It will be handed over to 407 ETR company.
 
Thank Mike Harris and the PC party for this situation .

Yes they sold the rights to operate the highway. But the Fiberals have had 10+ years to fix it. What have they done??? Nothing.

Actually, they told us they would "lower" the tolls during the last campaign, then only to say oooops we looked at the contract we have NO ability to do that..lmao
 
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;)
I`m pretty sure once the east part of the 407 is built.It will be handed over to 407 ETR company.

I don't know about that but they have said that you will use your current 407 transponder when using 407East and the billing will come on your existing 407 bill.

..Tom
 
Just a technical point; the 407 isn't owned by the company, it's leased. Given that it's a 99 year lease it might as well be owned though. Being able to block plate renewal, as a means of enforcing payment, was one of the terms of the lease.
 
Personally I think this entire highway is an abomination. The GTA should have this secondary highway for "free" public use rather than leaving the rest of us, who refuse to pay the high fees, to be held hostage to the current inadequate infrastructure for the region that continues to explode in population. Might as well tear down the gardiner and make it a toll highway, dont want to pay? you can use lakeshore and sit in traffic for 3 hours anytime you want to go anywhere. Same principal, it's extortion and it's BS.
 
Personally I think this entire highway is an abomination. The GTA should have this secondary highway for "free" public use rather than leaving the rest of us, who refuse to pay the high fees, to be held hostage to the current inadequate infrastructure for the region that continues to explode in population. Might as well tear down the gardiner and make it a toll highway, dont want to pay? you can use lakeshore and sit in traffic for 3 hours anytime you want to go anywhere. Same principal, it's extortion and it's BS.

I believe the 407 was always intended to be a toll road at some point, even in public hands. It's just ****** that a private organization is profiting, and not the public (where extra money could go into fixing the absolutely decrepit downtown system).

Also, tolls are not extortion. They *should* reduce other road taxes, like fuel and licensing, but we all know they won't. They will, however, delay increases to set taxes such as licensing.
 
I believe the 407 was always intended to be a toll road at some point, even in public hands. It's just ****** that a private organization is profiting, and not the public (where extra money could go into fixing the absolutely decrepit downtown system).

Also, tolls are not extortion. They *should* reduce other road taxes, like fuel and licensing, but we all know they won't. They will, however, delay increases to set taxes such as licensing.
The 407 wiki page has a lot of information about the history of the highway.

The highway first opened in 1997 and costed $1.6 billion in construction. It was to be user-tolled for ~35 years until they paid off the costs, after which the highway would be toll-free.

In 1999 the Harris government leased it to a Spanish Conglomerate for 99 years at $3.1 billion. As of 2010 the 407ETR is valued at $9 billion.

I feel all stripes and colours of our provincial government have screwed the tax payers: NDP (Photo Radar), PC (407ETR) & Liberals (Gas Plants/ORNG).

_____________________________

I wonder if it's possible for the Ontario government to use 'eminent domain' and take back the highway.
 
The 407 wiki page has a lot of information about the history of the highway.

The highway first opened in 1997 and costed $1.6 billion in construction. It was to be user-tolled for ~35 years until they paid off the costs, after which the highway would be toll-free.

In 1999 the Harris government leased it to a Spanish Conglomerate for 99 years at $3.1 billion. As of 2010 the 407ETR is valued at $9 billion.

I feel all stripes and colours of our provincial government have screwed the tax payers: NDP (Photo Radar), PC (407ETR) & Liberals (Gas Plants/ORNG).

_____________________________

I wonder if it's possible for the Ontario government to use 'eminent domain' and take back the highway.

I really don't think toll roads are a bad thing. Toll roads are fine, when tolls are used specifically to improve and expand infrastructure, as well as reduce congestion. It's that profit thing that's a problem. Even there though, I see nothing wrong with profit, just that if infrastructure is to be a public asset, there should be no profit that isn't either returned to the public, or reinvested into the public (more/better infrastructure).
 
I can drive on toll roads from Erie to Pittsburg for less than $4.00.
A 15 minute drive on the 407 costs me $16+....what a ****ing ripoff.
 

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