HTA 128 ticket ...Please advice... | GTAMotorcycle.com

HTA 128 ticket ...Please advice...

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arek1200r

Well-known member
There is a lot of smart people on here so please advice...clean record,my first ticket in 20 years:(, speeding 70km/h in a 60km/h zone, no demerit points $45 total fine....(it was reduced from 80km/h in a 60km/h zone) .Should I pay it and be done with it or try my luck in court...??? Thank you for any input and advice....
 
arek1200r said:
There is a lot of smart people on here so please advice...clean record,my first ticket in 20 years:(, speeding 70km/h in a 60km/h zone, no demerit points $45 total fine....(it was reduced from 80km/h in a 60km/h zone) .Should I pay it and be done with it or try my luck in court...??? Thank you for any input and advice....
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If your fine with having a ticket on your record pay it, If not fight it.
 
jeffjones said:
If your fine with having a ticket on your record pay it, If not fight it.
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I am not really fine with it... but the thing is I am not sure how to fight it and if I fight it and loose ,it may be changed to the original charge....?? Have I got any chance to win it?(its all new to me so I apologize for any stupid statements or questions):(
 
arek1200r said:
I am not really fine with it... but the thing is I am not sure how to fight it and if I fight it and loose ,it may be changed to the original charge....?? Have I got any chance to win it?(its all new to me so I apologize for any stupid statements or questions):(
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Well with the information we have so far it would be hard to tell if it is beatable or not, there is some fairly knowledgable people on here when it comes to tickets.
Post what happened (Leave street names out) and see if anyone can help you
 
it's ten over, you're not 16, walk in and say, you don't ticket someone for 10kph over the limit, drop it like its hot
 
arek1200r said:
I am not really fine with it... but the thing is I am not sure how to fight it and if I fight it and loose ,it may be changed to the original charge....?? Have I got any chance to win it?(its all new to me so I apologize for any stupid statements or questions):(
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Yes, you have a chance to win it (if you are properly prepared, refer to link above). The risk from having the original charge restored is essentially zero - demerit points and another $50 in fines mean nothing. What you should be concerned with is a conviction for a moving violation, which is the ONLY part that insurance cares about.
 
TwistedKestrel said:
Yes, you have a chance to win it (if you are properly prepared, refer to link above). The risk from having the original charge restored is essentially zero - demerit points and another $50 in fines mean nothing. What you should be concerned with is a conviction for a moving violation, which is the ONLY part that insurance cares about.
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I studied the link above...still not sure what to do...should I ask for first appearance and see what happens or set the court date...?
 
arek1200r said:
I studied the link above...still not sure what to do...should I ask for first appearance and see what happens or set the court date...?
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Generally your first appearance is when you will speak to the crown and they will ask you how you want to proceed. They will ask you if you wnat to plea guilty, or plead to a lesser charge, (although this one is already very low), or go to trial. There "is" the option that they will "amend" the charge to the full amount, but generally only do that if you piss them off or they are having a REALLY REALLY bad day.

once you "elect" how you want to proceed, the crown will have you take a seat until your case is called. at that point if you cop a plea the JP will hear the summation from the crown enter a guilty verdict, ***** your fine and ask if you need time to pay and your free to go. If you elect to go to trial, then you will sit and wait until your case is called you will stand before the JP the charge will be read and you will plead not guilty at which point the JP, (with the crown), will set a court date and tell you when it is etc. you will then also leave the court.
 
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arek1200r said:
I studied the link above...still not sure what to do...should I ask for first appearance and see what happens or set the court date...?
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Personally, I would not ask for first appearance.

I would request a trial. On the trial request form I would make sure that I check the YES box for the part that says that I intend to challenge the evidence of the Officer.

Once I receive the Notice of Trial by mail, I would check the trial date, if it is within the next 8 weeks I would submit a disclosure request asking for all relevant information (front and back of ticket, officers notes, LIDAR testing information, any video or audio evidence, etc).
If the trial date is not within 8 weeks I would wait to submit my disclosure request until then.

Once you receive your disclosure, you will want to review it and if there is any information missing, you will want to submit a Further Request Disclosure.

I'd start there.

If you want help reviewing the disclosure, you can post up here. Make sure not to include any personal information, offence numbers, officer name/badge number, location, etc.
 
First attendance can work against you when fighting a ticket. If you want all or nothing, there is no point in going.
 
arek1200r said:
I studied the link above...still not sure what to do...should I ask for first appearance and see what happens or set the court date...?
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Set the court date. Skip first appearance unless you just want it reduced now. A Reduced charge will still affect your insurance so this really is just about the fine.
They will still ask if you want/would plea to lesser when you check in with prosecutor on your court date.
I was in court today and 3 people had a red light charge and took reduced >>>>>fail to obey lane light ( or something simple like that). 0 points $85 fine.

2 said No deal and went for gold and with their cop a no show the charges were dismissed.

I didn't wait for any trials to see how those played out.
 
Once, my ticket was dropped at first attendance. This was a long time ago (years and years ago).

The latest reports indicate that first attendance does not drop any tickets anymore. I would go directly to trial.
 
MarcosSantiago said:
Once, my ticket was dropped at first attendance. This was a long time ago (years and years ago).

The latest reports indicate that first attendance does not drop any tickets anymore. I would go directly to trial.
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I actually had a charge withdrawn this past summer. it was for failure to wear seatbelt. problem was copper didn't see the belt, (the truck was imported from the US and had been customized. whoever did the customization also thought it would be cool to lower where the upper belt attached to the pillar).

I said NOTHING at5 the time I was stopped as this would have given the officer the opportunity to write the ticket for improper equipment. So I attended first appearance in the meantime I took photos of the seatbelt location as it was that day as well as the "old" mounting location and their relative positions to each other. I also took photos of the seatbelt as it was that day and then as it was on the day of court, (I had the seatbelt remounted in it's OEM location). I also brought the truck to court, (in the event the Jp wished to view it..lol). When called up by the crown I told her of my plan to plead not guilty and showed the evidence. she asked me to be seated then called up the officer.

They spoke for a few the officer then asked me to step outside the court room. He looked at my photos, and asked why I didn't say anything that day. I explained he could have hit my with an improper equipment charge, He asked how I knew that. I said I was driving a patrol car before you were born... he laughed and said ok I am in agreement with the crown to withdraw the charge as there now exists in my mind if you were indeed wearing the restraint. he said I could go if I wanted. I stayed to watch until after my case was disposed of and charges withdrawn.

So it "can happen" you just need to have all your ducks in a row, and show them your 100% prepared with a "viable" defense. Not likely to happen in this case unless the OP had a GoPro mounted showing time date and the speedometer at the EXACT time of the alleged offence..lol
 
^ Just to be clear, that was at your First Appearance court date.
The 'First Attendance' meeting is different from the 'First Appearance' court date.
At the First Attendance meeting, you would meet with the prosecutor, one on one, prior to a trial date. There will be no officer, no Justice of the Peace at this meeting.
 
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SLaP said:
^ Just to be clear, that was at your First Appearance court date.
The 'First Attendance' meeting is different from the 'First Appearance' court date.
At the First Attendance meeting, you would meet with the prosecutor, one on one, prior to a trial date. There will be no officer, no Justice of the Peace at this meeting.
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Actually what I described as my "first appearance", that is the system outside of GTA, your "first appearance" in other areas, (my court was Lindsay, where the cottage is), is a one on one meeting with the crown in the courtroom before "court starts" and the JP arrives. One the crown has met with everyone, (or all those present at the time), then the JP is summoned and court begins. They generally deal with pleas and dismissals first then move to those pleading not guilty and lastly, with any trials that may be scheduled for that day. Then during recesses the crown meets with the remainder of the accused who didn't meet or decide how to proceed.
 
Again, what you have described above is the "First Appearance".

The "First Attendance" is an alternative process through which the charge is reviewed with the defendant outside the courtroom (without having Provincial Court trials being scheduled) to facilitate a negotiated resolution and to reduce the number of cases brought to trial.
The regular course of action would be adjudication – the pleading of a case in front of a Justice of the Peace.
 
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BEFORE the argument continues, what I meant to say when I wrote first attendance is "Early Resolution (Meeting with Prosecutor)", which happens outside of court (usually in the prosecutor's office), and with the cop (or any other witness), not present.

So, Slap is right...

:p
 
No argument here. Just trying to clarify so that people who are new to fighting tickets are aware of the different options available and clear on what each option is.

C'mon, we have to work together now! :)
 
MarcosSantiago said:
BEFORE the argument continues, what I meant to say when I wrote first attendance is "Early Resolution (Meeting with Prosecutor)", which happens outside of court (usually in the prosecutor's office), and with the cop (or any other witness), not present.

So, Slap is right...

:p
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Not arguing with anyone, I am very familiar with the workings of the legal system in Ontario having been a copper I am aware of how it is done IN the GTA but that is not how it is done everywhere. again mine was a "first appearance" It was not to plead the case nor to go to trial it was the FIRST opportunity to meet the crown, (we don't have "prosecutors" in Canada that is a US term). Here they are referred to as "the crown" or "crown attorney" Again IN Lindsay this appearance is conducted in the actual courtrrom with the coppers present as the Crown's office is too small to conduct the meetings in.

So yes I agree with the information on first appearance etc IN the GTA is correct but not everyone goes to court IN the GTA. Therefore, I am also providing correct info to those who may be appearing in smaller jurisdictions. So now people have the correct info for both the GTA "system" and the system employed in smaller jurisdictions.
 
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