Advice for fighting Careless Driving Ticket

So after a few years of riding I've got my first ticket and its a big one.
I noticed the cop light me up on the 401, and when I checked my speedo I was doing about 135. So I pulled over. According to the cop, I was doing 160 at some point, when I'm almost positive I never went over 135. I told the officer this and apologized and handed over my info when requested, and was sure not to give any attitude, I knew I was in the wrong. I was then told I was also weaving in and out of traffic, cut off a semi, and was not signalling for my lane changes. Again, I'm positive I was signalling, and didn't cut anyone off and kindly explained this.
So eventually after running my info, the officer says she's going to "give me a break" and not suspend my license and impound the bike for going 50 over, and instead gives me a ticket for Careless Driving.
There were no accidents, no other witnesses to my alleged careless driving, and I've had a perfectly clean record for the years I've been riding, so naturally I don't want this on my record and will need to fight the ticket.

First off, if I do fight the ticket, I'm pretty sure its too late for the officer to claim I was doing 50 over, as the ticket is already for careless driving and they can't just change their mind and add on additional charges can they?
Second, how exactly can careless driving be proven? Most of the time I've heard of someone being given a ticket for it is when the officer shows up to the scene of an accident afterwards, and assumes the accident is due to careless driving. It seems like this is a very vague charge. Since there was no accident, I'd think the most the officer can report is that I wasn't signaling when changing lanes, which isn't true but ends up a case of my word vs hers, or possibly worse if the car had an onboard dash cam showing me "weaving" and cutting people off.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

they can charge you up to 6 months after the offence I think...

I think she didn't have **** to hold up to her quoted speed so just let you off, HTA 172 is A LOT worse.

Casual_Villain said:

First off, if I do fight the ticket, I'm pretty sure its too late for the officer to claim I was doing 50 over, as the ticket is already for careless driving and they can't just change their mind and add on additional charges can they?

Click to expand...

All of the information the officer told you by the side of the road (+60kph, weaving in/out, fail to signal, cutting off transport trucks) may be included in their notes, and presented at trial.

You can be charged with Stunt Driving, Speeding or related offences upto six months after the alleged offence took place through a part three summons. It appears the officer intended to give you a big break by not impounding your bike and suspending your license, so you might be out of the woodwork with respect to surprise charges.

Casual_Villain said:

Second, how exactly can careless driving be proven? Most of the time I've heard of someone being given a ticket for it is when the officer shows up to the scene of an accident afterwards, and assumes the accident is due to careless driving. It seems like this is a very vague charge. Since there was no accident, I'd think the most the officer can report is that I wasn't signaling when changing lanes, which isn't true but ends up a case of my word vs hers, or possibly worse if the car had an onboard dash cam showing me "weaving" and cutting people off.

Click to expand...

"Every person is guilty of the offence of driving carelessly who drives a vehicle or street car on a highway without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway" S.130 Careless Driving

A JP would agree that driving +60kph, weaving in/out, fail to signal, cutting off transport trucks... would fall under "driving without due care and attention".

Careless Driving is the "go-to" charge when vehicles are involved in accidents; especially with rear-end collisions, as long as the driver that was hit appears in court it is piss-easy for the prosecution to show that other driver was driving without "due care & attention".

Your best course of action is to file the ticket with your intent to go to trial and fight the charges. When you receive your notice of trial, request for disclosure and go from there.

As iFly55 said, request a trial date. By the time the city gets around to granting it, the 6 month period will likely have expired and you can work on fighting your ticket without fear of others being added.

Your best bet is if the cop doesn't show, if they are in court, try to trip up their story (i.e. could the cop have seen the other black bike that passed you at a high rate of speed 30 seconds before you got pulled over and mistaken you for it?)

Do you have aftermarket (i.e. led and or fender eliminator style) taillights? Many of these are approaching invisible and even if you were signalling your lane changes, nobody can see the turn signals tucked in tight against the brake light.

Good luck.

Was this near Milton?
I had the exact same thing down to a T happen to me from a cop named M. Ball.
I called him out all the BS stuff he was making up and he was being nice and would drop it to a careless.
I told him I was making notes on all the roadside lies he was telling me and had proof he was lying (He said he follewed me for 5kms while I was weaving in and out of traffic reaching speeds of 170km/hr, when I just got off work 5 mins prior and was less than a km from my on ramp).
Processed the ticket to set a court date and it was never filed.
Good luck and if it is that cop I have heard that he absolutely hates bikes and targets them.

OP refers to "she" when referring to the cop, so it's not the same one. Regardless ... do what others have been saying; request trial and ask for disclosure.

Brian P said:

OP refers to "she" when referring to the cop, so it's not the same one. Regardless ... do what others have been saying; request trial and ask for disclosure.

Click to expand...

My bad, i like to skim read.

Fight it for sure, A guy at work got dinged for a wheelie, they gave him a careless ticket and he paid it. Then after discovering his insurance was dropping him went back after the fact and hired a ticket fighter and had it lowered to IIRC failure to remain in your lane. Same fine + lawyer, no points and his insurance was reinstated.

Thanks for all the advice.
I basically assumed I'd need to take it to court and request disclosure.
I'm sure I was signalling, I just noticed today that one of my front turn signals isn't working so the rear turn signals are flashing at a higher rate than usual, so that may be why she thought I wasn't signalling.
Hopefully I'm able to get it reduced to something other than careless driving, the insurance reprecussions are what I'm most worried about

With a careless the police officer doesn't have to be there. Back in 1996 I got a careless ticket and I hired a real lawyer. The officer didn't show, but someone in his place (lawyer for Lambton OPP?) took his spot. However the judge reduced the charged to Unsafe move 2 pt and zero fine. back story - going too fast, pavement to freshly graded gravel road with a curve. (serious) over corrected as I wasn't used to powersteering and rolled my car (6 times over).

You want professional representation for this. This can be a fairly easy to beat charge, but generally only for someone with a lot of experience at it.

Rob MacLennan said:

You want professional representation for this. This can be a fairly easy to beat charge, but generally only for someone with a lot of experience at it.

Click to expand...

Exactly, Do as the wise gentleman has suggested this is NOT something you should be tackling yourself. Yes it "may" seem expensive for the lawyers fees etc. But consider the repercussions from an insurance point of standing by it self. in the end you will be saving money, and many many hassles.

If you haven't yet fixed the front signal take a video of how your signals flash at the present, (show this video to your lawyer), if you had aftermarket small signals replace them with stock ones, (not as pretty), but is about looks or saving future tickets and potentially your life, when someone else doesn't see you signals?

Say, you don't drive a black and orange sportbike, do you?

Casual_Villain said:

So after a few years of riding I've got my first ticket and its a big one.
I noticed the cop light me up on the 401, and when I checked my speedo I was doing about 135. So I pulled over. According to the cop, I was doing 160 at some point, when I'm almost positive I never went over 135. I told the officer this and apologized and handed over my info when requested, and was sure not to give any attitude, I knew I was in the wrong. I was then told I was also weaving in and out of traffic, cut off a semi, and was not signalling for my lane changes. Again, I'm positive I was signalling, and didn't cut anyone off and kindly explained this.
So eventually after running my info, the officer says she's going to "give me a break" and not suspend my license and impound the bike for going 50 over, and instead gives me a ticket for Careless Driving.
There were no accidents, no other witnesses to my alleged careless driving, and I've had a perfectly clean record for the years I've been riding, so naturally I don't want this on my record and will need to fight the ticket.

First off, if I do fight the ticket, I'm pretty sure its too late for the officer to claim I was doing 50 over, as the ticket is already for careless driving and they can't just change their mind and add on additional charges can they?
Second, how exactly can careless driving be proven? Most of the time I've heard of someone being given a ticket for it is when the officer shows up to the scene of an accident afterwards, and assumes the accident is due to careless driving. It seems like this is a very vague charge. Since there was no accident, I'd think the most the officer can report is that I wasn't signaling when changing lanes, which isn't true but ends up a case of my word vs hers, or possibly worse if the car had an onboard dash cam showing me "weaving" and cutting people off.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Click to expand...

This is the typical response by any cop who pulls over a bike, imo if its was at night and safe you were already doing 135, should have downshifted and dissapeared, NO chick cop is going to chase a bike, trust me, thats one thing nice about female cops.

Second, she gave you a careless driving, because she KNEW she did not have a speed on you, but you admited 135, so when you go to court, since you were nice and polite, and since she knows you are not a dumbass, and they know now people fight tickets in courts, what she did was this, if she gave you a speeding charge, she automatically lost the case in court if you decide to fight it, but if you didn't, she would wins automatically, but she's not going to take a 50% chance you will just pay for a speeding ticket, so to gaurantee her conviction she gave you a BIGGER charge, a careless charge which again if you just go pay the fine, she double wins by winning a huge charge against you, but she knows your going to contest the ticket, so she gives you careless, then you go to court, and you know you can either pay a lawyer to fight the careless in which case if the officer truely has nothing on you you double win, and that cop will never mess with you again, or you plea guilty to a lesser charge either because you don't care or can't afford a lawyer, or you opened your mouth too much, and admitted you were speeding, in which case you have no option but to plead guilty to a lesser chage, and guess what that charge would be......yes you guess it speeding 135kmh in a 100kmh zone! congratulations you just waisted your time and money....should have just dipped! lol

If you decide to get pulled over, don't open your mouth or admit anything, if you can't do that you might as well run, because your going to get fuokked either way.

BTW, cops remember who is easy bait vs who they should not F with, they never f with people again who go through a lawyer win a case, or people who they hussled into a ticket, only to get sued back after the civilian wins the case, they never fk with those kinds of people, because they know those kinds of people know the system and are smart, knowledgeable and have the power to use it. If everyone did this, i mean hired a good lawyer, no cop would ever intimidate anyone, cops would fear civilians not the other way around.

in short hire a lawyer...in the long run....... if you want to live in this country start making friends who are lawyers.

my cousins father is a supreme court judge president, his kids broke all the laws known to man, have no record or speedind ticket, and never did their homework or exams yet his sons are president of a bank with two masters, and the other a mayor with a degree from oxford, and they have all the money in the world, and know all the famous people in the world.

and here i was barely surving paying for business school back in uni, ever since i started hanging out with lawyers life is getting better...less stressful mentally. now if i even get hta 172, im laughing to a friends house.

sadly lawyers run this world.

"supreme court judge president"

Uh huh.

2WET said:

This is the typical response by any cop who pulls over a bike, imo if its was at night and safe you were already doing 135, should have downshifted and dissapeared, NO chick cop is going to chase a bike, trust me, thats one thing nice about female cops.

Click to expand...

Worst advice ever lol.
How are you supposed to know its a chick cop?
How do you know 100% of chick cops won't give chase?

How do you know she doesn't have your plate already when you take off and goes to your house and waits or you to pull up and give you an HTA172, evading police, obstruction of justice, dangerous driving (Criminal charge and can be arrested), impounds your vehicle, suspends your license and just basically goes to town on you with no Vaseline. That sounds a lot better then just pulling over.........

Mongrel said:

"supreme court judge president"

Uh huh.

Click to expand...

LOL,
Remember, this is the internet and you can be and know whoever you want lol.

When did a supreme court judge president (Where did you come up with that) ever have all the university professors in their back pocket so that kids could do zero work and have passing grades?



Advice, Put the marijuana down.

Believe it or not, the term "President of the Supreme Court" is actually used. Just not here.

I do agree that the advice to run is incredibly bad.