Court Date Tomorrow- Am I Ready? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Court Date Tomorrow- Am I Ready?

J

johnnyboy

Member
So I received a speeding ticket in December of last year. I plead not guilty and mailed out for disclosure. They mailed me a letter back at the end of May saying it was ready to be picked up. Anyways I didn't have a chance to pick it up till last Monday and noticed immediately that they didn't send the officer's notes typed up which I had requested. I tried to read through the notes but it's not 100% legible, so I immediately re-requested for typed disclosure to be sent.

Anyways tomorrow is my court date so should I bring in my 2 disclosure requests and show that they didn't type of the notes as I requested so I could prepare a proper case?
 
johnnyboy said:
So I received a speeding ticket in December of last year. I plead not guilty and mailed out for disclosure. They mailed me a letter back at the end of May saying it was ready to be picked up. Anyways I didn't have a chance to pick it up till last Monday and noticed immediately that they didn't send the officer's notes typed up which I had requested. I tried to read through the notes but it's not 100% legible, so I immediately re-requested for typed disclosure to be sent.

Anyways tomorrow is my court date so should I bring in my 2 disclosure requests and show that they didn't type of the notes as I requested so I could prepare a proper case?
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Yeah, and ask for an adjournment? I did something similar, never got the notes, asked for adjournment and the case got dismissed lol
 
typed notes are usually required if the handwriting is illegible, if the officers shows up... he'll explain the notes to you

you'll have an opportunity to adjourn to a new date to prepare for trial
 
if i request adjournment can i file an 11b if the court date is 12 months from the original infraction? or will i be unable to as i am the one asking for the adjournment?
 
johnnyboy said:
if i request adjournment can i file an 11b if the court date is 12 months from the original infraction? or will i be unable to as i am the one asking for the adjournment?
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if the delay is within the guidelines you can certainly file an 11b, but whether you'll be successful really depends on the Justice of Peace & prosecutor in attendance when you argue it

in Ontario the crown requires 8 weeks to process disclosure requests; disclosure being available in May and picking it up in late July will show that you have not exercised due diligence; you may have to be accountable for that time (ie: hospitalized, out of town)

the crown may argue that had you picked up disclosure in May, the disclosure deficiencies could have been remedied prior to the trial; you can of course argue it differently, where you included a request for typed notes in the first request and it went unanswered, and proof of your additional request

this might be a situation where the Justice of Peace might appropriate the new delay as a neutral, your fault or the crown
 
This delay is 100% your fault. IF you get an adjournment, you've basically given away your chance at an 11(b). The Crown will say the disclosure has been ready for months, the JP will side with them unless you were in a coma that entire time.
 
Macs said:
This delay is 100% your fault. IF you get an adjournment, you've basically given away your chance at an 11(b). The Crown will say the disclosure has been ready for months, the JP will side with them unless you were in a coma that entire time.
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Not quite correct, but close enough for government work. It's more a case of not doing due diligence in collecting the disclosure as soon as possible so that the mistake of incomplete disclosure could be found, and corrected, as soon as practicable. The mistake in failing to give all that was requested is on The Crown, but failure to obtain the documents and request correction in a timely manner is on the OP.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Not quite correct, but close enough for government work. It's more a case of not doing due diligence in collecting the disclosure as soon as possible so that the mistake of incomplete disclosure could be found, and corrected, as soon as practicable. The mistake in failing to give all that was requested is on The Crown, but failure to obtain the documents and request correction in a timely manner is on the OP.
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jesus i think i had the spawn of satan in grandma form as my judge. went up with my documents asking for typed notes (2 requests) as i couldn't decipher them and asked for an adjournment. DENIED... stated that the officer can go over the ticket with me since it's a simple speeding ticket and the prosecutor stated it was perfectly legible as she could read it (lie). anyways i agree to that since she will not deny me the adjournment based on the request for type written notes. go back and sit down and wait for recess to speak to officer.

first recess: officer is nowhere to be found, apparently testifying in criminal court next door. prosecutor offers to go over the notes with me as she can read them, i ask for the officer as he was the one who wrote the ticket.

back in court i get called back up... the prosecutor states that the cop is unavailable to discuss the ticket and that i denied her going over the ticket with me. judge doesn't like this and states i must go over the ticket with the prosecutor. i reluctantly agree. prosecutor goes outside with me while judge does some stuff. prosecutor starts going over ticket skipping parts because she has no idea what she's reading (it wasn't legible)... then the cop shows up about 5 minutes later and goes over the ticket with me.

again we go back in and i request for an adjournment because now i have to bring this information back to my paralegal (i spoke to him yesterday and he said the typed notes for adjournment should be enough).

she reluctantly agrees to a week adjournment based on the fact that if found guilty i will be charged with my original charge a 90 in a 60, vs 70 in a 60.

this was burlington court house.
 
Wait..... They dropped it to a 10 over and you're fighting it with the chance you could get hosed big time if you lose??


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up
 
Roomie said:
Wait..... They dropped it to a 10 over and you're fighting it with the chance you could get hosed big time if you lose??


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up
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From an insurance standpoint both convictions would be the same. The difference is points on the license.
 
Roomie said:
Wait..... They dropped it to a 10 over and you're fighting it with the chance you could get hosed big time if you lose??


Sent from my commodore 64 on dial up
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i'm 24 turning 25 in a few months... insurance renewal is in november. i have had a clean record for my entire life, except in the past 6 months i was unfortunate and received 1 10 over ticket and 1 15 over ticket (reduced)... so i'm trying to either delay the ticket conviction or get them wiped clean because i'm already paying 2700 a year with a clean record on my car.
 
If the officer was not available, couldn't you just go ahead and proceed with the trial? Or did they somehow "force" you to discuss it with the prosecutor?

In other other words, couldn't you just say that you don't need to have the disclosure explained to you if the officer is not going to be present (i.e. no witness)?
 
daveyflakes said:
If the officer was not available, couldn't you just go ahead and proceed with the trial? Or did they somehow "force" you to discuss it with the prosecutor?

In other other words, couldn't you just say that you don't need to have the disclosure explained to you if the officer is not going to be present (i.e. no witness)?
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yeah he "signed in" but immediately went to another court room, and would periodically stop in. it was weird. anyways i thought the typed notes was a solid reason for adjournment, but apparently not :S
 
johnnyboy said:
yeah he "signed in" but immediately went to another court room, and would periodically stop in. it was weird. anyways i thought the typed notes was a solid reason for adjournment, but apparently not :S
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If the notes were illegible and you were forced to effectively receive disclosure on the day of trial, then it is a reasonable cause for adjournment. That it wasn't considered such could be reason for appeal, as you were kept from formulating a defense.
 
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