M2-exit Test Burlington road route?

Emefef said:

Yes, several. I'll share a couple, but let me start with a couple of questions.
1) Why do question M2 Exit program at "several schools" - Have you sampled many? or did you mean, as implied by the pay-to-pass comment that you simply question the validity of testing?
2) If you are questioning the validity of testing, where did you get your M2? Didn't the school where you did your basic rider training administer the test at the end of the course? If so, why would it be valid for an M1 Exit but not M2 Exit? Getting the M2 allowed you out on the road for 5 years with only ONE restriction. M2 Exit removes the restriction. Why would one of those powers be granted to a Recognized Authority ("RA", an MTO term) and not the other?

There will be distinct differences in the feel, or delivery of different programs, but under the Driver Certification Program (DCP) of the MTO, ALL approved courses must contain specific subject matter and minimum training times. Testing is done by certified examiners that undergo the same training as DriveTest examiners. In fact, until the end of 2014, MTO ran the training for all of the Recognized Authorities (all the schools, including police training). The training program was run by a Lead Instructor (MTO) and several trainers - all of which were or had been Signing Authorities (instructors that can test) at a Recognized Authority. This training was conducted spring and autumn almost every year, at the expense of the MTO. As you can imagine, it got expensive and as part of an overhaul the new DCP requires that the Recognized Authorities conduct the training, and there are very specific requirements for the training and the qualifications for the Lead Instructor, In-vehicle trainers, and Demo Riders. Initially, there were only a couple dozen people in Ontario that met the qualifications. Now there are more, which will make it more efficient as each RA gets more senior people trained for the in-vehicle and demo riding positions. As it stands now, there are only a handful of active instructors in Ontario in the RA system that are qualified as Lead Instructors.
Don't forget, DriveTest conducts most of the tests, not MTO. The training and oversight is the same for examiners. In fact, at DriveTest, there is no requirement that the person administering an M2 Exit test actually have an M license or have ever even ridden a motorcycle.

With respect to the "unnatural feel" of the head movements, a lot of that is based on these threads, and the advice to just keep your head moving. The actual marking criteria for the test is that the examiner observes head movement where there should be. You can't check a blind spot without moving your head. You only have to check it once, and you have to do it before executing the turn. You can't (or shouldn't) be doing a proper scan of traffic without moving your head. Again, you do it once at the correct time.
The only real issues are the mirror checks and properly identifying hazards. You can see as you approach a crosswalk whether there are pedestrians there without moving your head - but if your head doesn't move, then the examiner doesn't know you looked. There are 12 predetermined hazards on the test. If you missed everyone of them, you wouldn't yet be halfway to a fail. As for mirrors, again the examiner can't see if you looked at your mirrors without looking for head movement. So for about 25 minutes, when you look at your mirror, move your head a bit! It's not about being a bobblehead, it's about a little bit of movement to confirm you looked.
The benefit of the doubt is supposed to go to the rider. I don't know why people put tape on their helmet to help the examiner.
To mark a demerit point, I have to watch specifically for your head to move at the right time, and be certain it didnt'. If I'm not sure, it's not an error.
There are several benefits to taking a program - such as learning and understanding the rationale behind the M2 Exit test requirements rather than how to fool the examiner for 25 minutes. Learning how the test was developed, instead of believing it's a bunch of MTO bull can also be helpful, (even if it's just to understand that freakish head movement is not one of the requirements).
If you're really just concerned about the testing, or the potential pay-to-pass conflict: I was audited many times, sometimes twice a year, over a period of about 18 years (until the 2014 season when procedures changed). We were consistently told that we were generally MORE stringent in our application of the marking criteria. It wasn't just us, it was most of the Recognized Authorities. Why? Because we trained the students. We explained the reasons for what they were doing. We coached them to look for certain things, and to prepare for and react to certain things. We've observed them for several hours during training. When they make an error, we know it's an error. Scores should be low - not because we have a vested interest in keeping them low, but because they had the benefit of training.

by the way, we don't tell our riders the test route in advance.

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matthew said:

I'm being facetious.

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superseven said:

Thank you for the perspective. Generally feel you more than adequately addressed my concerns, except for one. Within my riding group those that were most unsure of their skills due to limited seat time took M2 exit courses, they may of satisfied the requirements to pass the test and may have done so with Drive test (sorry used interchangeably with MYO) but they are still not confident riders and some would have likely failed if they took the test on their own.

I guess that is my main concern. As stated the M2 exit is a confirmation of skills gathered over the time period. I feel as if the course has a obligation to the customer to help them pass even if they really shouldn't. Just a perspective and I would also like to note I have much less experience than you in this area.


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Emefef said:

I can't speak on behalf of everyone, but I feel no obligation to pass someone while I'm testing them. I feel a VERY STRONG obligation to coach each rider to the highest level they can attain in the short time we have. That's usually sufficient. Most failures I've seen are not for the accumulation of points, they're for single significant errors such as missing a stop sign riding through a red light, or one that failed to yield at a 4 way stop.
Sometimes people get through that don't appear to be all that confident - going to the MTO or DriveTest may have prevented a pass, maybe not. Just as we do with Basic Rider Training, we generally sit people down and go through our concerns if, in our opinion, they passed but "just aren't ready" for certain things. One of the flaws with the graduating licencing system is that the stages are based on the passage of time, rather than actual experience. That makes it difficult. We'd have to consider more regular testing during each of the phases to ensure that people had real experience and not just some last minute coaching. At lease the people that were in your group got the benefit of some real instruction, instead of just tips on how to pass.

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