What can you do about bad drivers?

Bike Cop said:

If you want to create societal change, how about owner liability for failing to stop? Seeing as this is a motorcycle discussion board...

Click to expand...

Absolutely. Owners should be responsible for the use of their vehicles regardless of who is driving.

Bike Cop said:

At my Detachment, there are approximately 15 marked cruisers (cars/SUV's), and exactly two unmarked vehicles. We also have one motorcycle. Our primary purpose is traffic safety through visibility, not sneaky enforcement. Personally I think it's good to supplement the front line patrols with one unmarked car, and one motorcycle. They each have their strengths. But most of the time, we need the fully marked unit - blocking lanes of traffic for collision scenes, escorting vehicles, providing visible deterrence, etc. Most of the officers wish they had unmarked cars, but the truth is they don't need them. There are more than enough charges to be laid on our roadways without resorting to hiding in the bushes.

Click to expand...

Hey BikeCop, havent seen a post from you in ages. Anyway, just adding a few comments to this.. Marked police vehicles are a great deterrent and the obvious most common deterrent is from speeding. What gets me is the bad driving habits here - use of signals, not staying right unless passing , irractic driving, failure to use headlights when in snowstorm or low light conditions.. just basic driving techniques.
Even the stats show that the police have a hard time reversing their vehicles.. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/03/31/backing-up-surprisingly-tough-for-toronto-police.html - The standard level of driving has dropped substantially. At any traffic light, take a look around, 1/2 the people are checking their phones or distracted in one way or another.

trebororr said:

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Giving people warnings is not always the most effective way to change behaviour. Do you have children? Do you constantly give them warnings or are there consequences to their actions once in a while? A marked police vehicle is a type of warning only changing behaviour while they are visible. Some people which are called self actualizers understand that they have received a break (close call) and they use that experience as a learning experience: unfortunately only 5% of people are self actualizers, the rest need to be dragged by their noses kicking and screaming into a new way of behaving.

With some people you need to change their behaviour in order for their thinking to change, while others you need to change their thinking before their behaviour will change. You need to have all tools available in your tool chest in order to affect societal change. Limiting the tools available is a recipe for failure or at minimum reduced success.

Click to expand...

I've already stated my reasons for this, so there is no reason for me to restate them now.

kiwi said:

bad driving habits here - use of signals, not staying right unless passing , irractic driving, failure to use headlights when in snowstorm or low light conditions...

Click to expand...

To make matters worse, we back up those bad driving habits with poorly written traffic laws. Any one of those offences is easily argued in our courts. ie. I didn't signal because no one else was near me... I had just overtaken someone and hadn't moved back to the right yet... there was a bee in my car... my mechanic reset my headlight switch from auto to off... blah blah blah... and our courts buy into it. It's no wonder our driving has gone for a slide, so has the conviction rate.

Bike Cop said:

To make matters worse, we back up those bad driving habits with poorly written traffic laws. Any one of those offences is easily argued in our courts. ie. I didn't signal because no one else was near me... I had just overtaken someone and hadn't moved back to the right yet... there was a bee in my car... my mechanic reset my headlight switch from auto to off... blah blah blah... and our courts buy into it. It's no wonder our driving has gone for a slide, so has the conviction rate.

Click to expand...

The section on use of signals seriously needs a rewrite. Use of signals is as much for the vehicle that you don't see, as it is to inform the vehicles that you do see of your impending actions.

Rob MacLennan said:

The section on use of signals seriously needs a rewrite. Use of signals is as much for the vehicle that you don't see, as it is to inform the vehicles that you do see of your impending actions.

Click to expand...

Even the few people a day I see using them dont understand this bit. They are there to indicate your "intention" not your "action". So often you see people brake hard and then put their indicator on or move into the turning lane and put their indicator on after doing so. Also the people your waiting to go past so you can make a right turn and then all of a sudden brake hard and indicate the last minute to turn into the street your on.

Regarding my letter writing campaign its purpose is to let the Minister of Transportation know that we are concerned regarding how some drivers are behaving on our roads and that we want him to do something about it. Let's rattle his cage!

It has been brought to my attention by some forum members that they could not or would not support the campaign due to a particular section of the letter which they objected with. As that particular point in the letter (regarding the usage of unmarked Police Service vehicles to be used to patrol our roadways) does not even fall under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Transportation it was removed.

Please take part in this campaign as this is a worthwhile cause, by using the following letter template (adding your personal information where required) and send to Minister Del Duca at sdelduca.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org.



Your Name Here
Your Home Address Here
City, Province Postal Code
April 2, 2015

Steven Del Duca
Minister of Transportation

Honorable Minister Del Duca:

I am writing you as I wish to discuss driving in the Province of Ontario. There has been a degradation of driving skills and etiquette in Ontario over the past ten years.

Each year almost 500 persons are killed on Ontario's roads (ORSAR 2011), while tens of thousands are injured; these numbers are shocking for an advanced society such as our own. These incidents are avoidable; resulting in billions of dollars being spent on health care which our province can ill afford ($17.9 Billion Transport Canada 2004). In addition to the avoidable health care costs is the loss of productivity and more importantly is that some people's lives are changed forever negatively.

The solution to this problem is not simple or easy as it requires the co-operation of many institutions such as the Legislature, Ministry of Transportation, the Police Services, and the Ministry of the Attorney General.

Minister Del Duca, someone has to take the lead to solve the problem.

The starting point to the solution is driver licencing; strict adherence to the Driver Examination Marking Guide to make certain that only skilled individuals receive a Driver’s Licence. Secondly, amending laws in the Highway Traffic Act so that they are less subjective to assist Driver Examination, Police Services and the Courts. Thirdly, having the Ministry of Transportation administer the Driver Control Programs in a fashion so that the consequences to the offending drivers are in proportion to the pain and suffering that they inflict on the innocent.

Life is our most precious possession. Minister Del Duca, since driving is a privilege why are unskilled, uncaring or dangerously aggressive individuals allowed to drive on our roads?

Thank you for your support.

Sincerely,

Your Name Here

Now we are talking. That is a whole lot better. Short on specifics ...

One particular problem is that driving schools are virtually unregulated. And they "teach to the test" as opposed to teaching people what they really need to know.

Another one is that people go to a driver examination center distant from their home in order to avoid specific situations that they are not comfortable with, e.g. parallel parking, driving on highways, heavy traffic, etc., and are then exposed to these situations every day.

Brian P said:

Now we are talking. That is a whole lot better. Short on specifics ...

One particular problem is that driving schools are virtually unregulated. And they "teach to the test" as opposed to teaching people what they really need to know.

Another one is that people go to a driver examination center distant from their home in order to avoid specific situations that they are not comfortable with, e.g. parallel parking, driving on highways, heavy traffic, etc., and are then exposed to these situations every day.

Click to expand...

You don't want to read the five page letter (Or do you?) that the Minister of Transportation has received several times in the past eight months with the specifics that you mentioned. This short letter is to show him that people are interested and that it is in his best interest to have a meeting to discuss the issue with the interested parties.