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Propane vs gas generator

Is generac considered a good brand? Reviews online indicate so.

I see that Lowes has some pretty good deals on the generac brand sometimes.
They are a good value for homeowners as a standby generator and most people are happy with them.Probably one of the better cheap consumer grade generators.The biggest problem with their portable generators is getting parts or any kind of warranty work done.You are basically on your own.That being said if you get a good one with no warrant issues and only use it occasionally you should be fine.The equivalent Honda generator is at least twice the price but you can run it all day long and if you break or wear anything out, Honda's service and parts network is second to none and I've heard Yamaha is very good too.As far as the Generac stationary generators,they work as advertised.I've had a few minor problems with them but nothing major.You get a lot of security and peace of mind for not a lot of money.
 
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Not sure if this will help anyone- but TSC has this on sale right now.
http://www.tscstores.com/5500W6500W-CHAMPION-PORTABLE-GENERATOR-P22428.aspx#.VH4Y7THF98E
Thanks to this thread- I'm looking into getting the Generlink installed at our house now too.
I've emailed them to see if it is available in our area.
Can anyone explain (like you are speaking to a child) what the difference is between 'Bonded neutral' and 'floating neutral' and how it would relate to hooking this up to our home?--or is this even something we need to be concerned with?
(the generator link above is a 'floating neutral'- and is on their list of compatible generators- but they also have bonded neutral ones on the list).
We also have a well pump, electric water heater, a pellet stove, and a few other things that we would like to run when the power lines go down (usually a couple of times per winter up here).
Thanks for all your help!
 
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Not sure if this will help anyone- but TSC has this on sale right now.
http://www.tscstores.com/5500W6500W-CHAMPION-PORTABLE-GENERATOR-P22428.aspx#.VH4Y7THF98E
Thanks to this thread- I'm looking into getting the Generlink installed at our house now too.
I've emailed them to see if it is available in our area.
Can anyone explain (like you are speaking to a child) what the difference is between 'Bonded neutral' and 'floating neutral' and how it would relate to hooking this up to our home?
(the generator link above is a 'floating neutral'- and is on their list of compatible generators).
We also have a well pump, electric water heater, a pellet stove, and a few other things that we would like to run when the power lines go down (usually a couple of times per winter up here).
Thanks for all your help!
Bonded means that your ground is physically connected to the neutral so that there is a zero voltage potential between ground and neutral.I don't know if that's really relevant that your generator's neutral is bonded or not because it will already be bonded in your main panel and usually in your meter base too.
 
Personally, I fail to see the issue with gas. Keep gas in a gas can, when it get's old put it into the car/suv/truck and refill the gas can. If ever used in the genny, add a bit of stabilizer empty it and run the lines dry when done. Getting fresh gas in a power-down event isn't that hard imo.
Uhm,not true.I drove across the north end of Toronto during the, ice storm and could not get fresh gas anywhere.Gas stations had no power,therefore no gas.
 
Uhm,not true.I drove across the north end of Toronto during the, ice storm and could not get fresh gas anywhere.Gas stations had no power,therefore no gas.

I've only seen one massive longer term blackout in the GTA that makes your supposition significant. But even with that in mind...

Uhm, you're not thinking of the bigger picture (and I think you mean gas, instead of fresh gas). Imo any person who is going to set up a genny for a house in any potential electrical freezing event will have a ready gas can supply, as it generally also used for lawnmowers, snowblowers and vehicles (and subsequently in vehicles if getting old as previously described without wasting or worry). Plus anyone being that thoughtful in prevention planning imo should keep vehicles on the north side of 1/2 full all the time (for consistently obvious reasons congruent with their disaster prevention planning). So it is a simple siphon away for 5 or more gallons when in need. Any motorcycle owner who doesn't have a siphon for their own work isn't very handy (which is the overall forum we are in). And either way it is $10-$20 to buy a simple basic siphon.

I have a few ready gas can supplies at all times for my lawn mower, snow blower, trimmer, chainsaw, rototiller,etc. Even if one doesn't have all of those gasoline power products there is always the vehicle use it can be put into when older without worry. And I can use such gas in my motorcycle and all my vehicles if it starts to get old and keep a fresh supply.

FWIW, I've done two years of fuel stabilizer on gas being lazy, with no negative effects.

So again, I see no significant issue with using gas genny's in the plan.
 
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I've only seen one massive longer term blackout in the GTA that makes your supposition significant. But even with that in mind...

Uhm, you're not thinking of the bigger picture (and I think you mean gas, instead of fresh gas). Imo any person who is going to set up a genny for a house in any potential electrical freezing event will have a ready gas can supply, as it generally also used for lawnmowers, snowblowers and vehicles (and subsequently in vehicles if getting old as previously described without wasting or worry). Plus anyone being that thoughtful in prevention planning imo should keep vehicles on the north side of 1/2 full all the time (for consistently obvious reasons congruent with their disaster prevention planning). So it is a simple siphon away for 5 or more gallons when in need. Any motorcycle owner who doesn't have a siphon for their own work isn't very handy (which is the overall forum we are in). And either way it is $10-$20 to buy a simple basic siphon.

I have a few ready gas can supplies at all times for my lawn mower, snow blower, trimmer, chainsaw, rototiller,etc. Even if one doesn't have all of those gasoline power products there is always the vehicle use it can be put into when older without worry. And I can use such gas in my motorcycle and all my vehicles if it starts to get old and keep a fresh supply.

FWIW, I've done two years of fuel stabilizer on gas being lazy, with no negative effects.

So again, I see no significant issue with using gas genny's in the plan.
Just playing Devil's advocate.Some people won't want to store all those jerry cans,get down on their knees and siphon gas out of their BMW and then run out to their generator and gas it up in middle of a storm every 6 hours.For those people natural gas is a better option.
 
I've only seen one massive longer term blackout in the GTA that makes your supposition significant. But even with that in mind...

Uhm, you're not thinking of the bigger picture (and I think you mean gas, instead of fresh gas). Imo any person who is going to set up a genny for a house in any potential electrical freezing event will have a ready gas can supply, as it generally also used for lawnmowers, snowblowers and vehicles (and subsequently in vehicles if getting old as previously described without wasting or worry). Plus anyone being that thoughtful in prevention planning imo should keep vehicles on the north side of 1/2 full all the time (for consistently obvious reasons congruent with their disaster prevention planning). So it is a simple siphon away for 5 or more gallons when in need. Any motorcycle owner who doesn't have a siphon for their own work isn't very handy (which is the overall forum we are in). And either way it is $10-$20 to buy a simple basic siphon.

I have a few ready gas can supplies at all times for my lawn mower, snow blower, trimmer, chainsaw, rototiller,etc. Even if one doesn't have all of those gasoline power products there is always the vehicle use it can be put into when older without worry. And I can use such gas in my motorcycle and all my vehicles if it starts to get old and keep a fresh supply.

FWIW, I've done two years of fuel stabilizer on gas being lazy, with no negative effects.

So again, I see no significant issue with using gas genny's in the plan.

Not everyone lives in the GTA, I can get propane with no power (tank exchange or refill), gasoline needs to be pumped. Gas isn't convenient and in the event of an ice storm last thing I want to be doing is messing with siphoning appliances or trying to get something started because it was put away wet.
 
Not everyone lives in the GTA, I can get propane with no power (tank exchange or refill), gasoline needs to be pumped. Gas isn't convenient and in the event of an ice storm last thing I want to be doing is messing with siphoning appliances or trying to get something started because it was put away wet.

Refilling a propane tank normally requires electricity to run a pump. Maybe it would refill slowly without the pump, but I've never seen it tried.

If the power is out everywhere, the stores will be closed as they can't run their cash registers or lights. The only supply you can count on is the one you possess before the outage happens (with a close second to natural gas as it is rarely interrupted).
 
Refilling a propane tank normally requires electricity to run a pump. Maybe it would refill slowly without the pump, but I've never seen it tried.

If the power is out everywhere, the stores will be closed as they can't run their cash registers or lights. The only supply you can count on is the one you possess before the outage happens (with a close second to natural gas as it is rarely interrupted).

As for refilling with out a pump liquid propane is under pressure. it also is affected by gravity.

I've paid cash for items when the power is out. Big box stores won't do it but mom and pop stores will
 
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Just playing Devil's advocate.Some people won't want to store all those jerry cans,get down on their knees and siphon gas out of their BMW and then run out to their generator and gas it up in middle of a storm every 6 hours.For those people natural gas is a better option.

I know what you mean... It may be a pain, but all options for emergency prep will require some effort. I don't see a lot of jerry can storage needed (with sources noted earlier). IMO, it is a PITA storing propane as well so at least with gasoline I and many people already do it. And there is the cold weather issue with propane generators that has been absent in this thread (discussed below).

Not everyone lives in the GTA, I can get propane with no power (tank exchange or refill), gasoline needs to be pumped. Gas isn't convenient and in the event of an ice storm last thing I want to be doing is messing with siphoning appliances or trying to get something started because it was put away wet.

Well, since this website is GTAM, I figured the conversation should be focused on urban use. Rural areas make sense for propane generator use, primarily because addressing cold weather propane use by sizing propane storage with a large tank is not an issue. Let's also note though.... in rural areas, some individuals will have gravity fed gasoline supplies as well, so by making a few strategic friends your point about limited gasoline supplies in a power outage goes out the window. As for the cold weather issue with propane generators, I've discussed it below in more detail. It makes propane generator use more problematic in urban use for many people than in rural use).

If the power is out everywhere, the stores will be closed as they can't run their cash registers or lights. The only supply you can count on is the one you possess before the outage happens (with a close second to natural gas as it is rarely interrupted).

Having been through a multi-day power outage in the GTA I found that there just weren't people opening any businesses. So I totally agree that the only fully reliable fuel supply that someone can count on is their own





No one yet has posted about the potential for poor cold weather performance of propane. Propane vaporization rates are much lower in cold weather, which is exacerbated as the tank get's used up. Those conditions, in combination with small propane tank size can result in a generator not being able to run (i.e., tank freeze up).

A 20lb or 30 lb propane tank as it is consumed in freezing weather may stop working with a propane generator demands (it will work when the tank is full, it may not at 50% full or 25% full). And the colder it becomes, the worse the problem. That is why in most cold climate places, I've seen recommendations of two 100 lb propane tanks or a 200 pound tank for propane generator use. While this may be no issue in when living in the country (lots of space), in urban areas (again, noting the GTAM descriptor of this forum),.... transport, refill and space considerations make a large tank potentially a problem for many urban people.

A 4000 watt generator at 50% load consumes about 40,000 BTU. Very conservatively, a 20 lb propane tank at 0 degrees Celsius and 25% full can vaporize 16,000 BTU. So in this example, the 4000 watt generator will not be able to run.

One way to address the small tank problem without using a big tank (200 lb for example) is have a bunch of small tanks full and stored for potential use, but who wants to store a bunch of small full propane tanks.



IMO, in urban use in the GTA with the potential for cold weather extended outages, there is merit to having a gasoline generator instead of a propane generator. I don't want to say that gas generators are the way to go for everyone, by any means though. But rather that there are many considerations on what type of generator to use in each individual's circumstance, and it is not black and white by any means.
 
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IMO, in urban use in the GTA with the potential for cold weather extended outages, there is merit to having a gasoline generator instead of a propane generator. I don't want to say that gas generators are the way to go for everyone, by any means though. But rather that there are many considerations on what type of generator to use in each individual's circumstance, and it is not black and white by any means.

If I lived in the GTA I'd look at nat gas. If nat gas came down my street I'd use nat gas. The worry on the performance of propane in colder temps is for sure a valid one and something to consider. I wonder if there's a way you could keep the tanks warmer so they don't get affected by the cold
 
CruisnGrrl.if you're dead set on propane and only want to power up your pump, fridge and freezer I think the best solution is to get a propane generator and just run it when you need water and maybe 20 minutes every few hours to cool down your fridge and freezer.A freezer will easily keep food frozen with absolutely no power for twenty four hours.I think a tank of propane would go a long way if you did this.You said you have alternate sources of light and heat so there really wouldn't be any reason to run that generator continuously and using up your limited supply of fuel.What is your source of hot water.
 
They are a good value for homeowners as a standby generator and most people are happy with them.Probably one of the better cheap consumer grade generators.The biggest problem with their portable generators is getting parts or any kind of warranty work done.You are basically on your own.That being said if you get a good one with no warrant issues and only use it occasionally you should be fine.The equivalent Honda generator is at least twice the price but you can run it all day long and if you break or wear anything out, Honda's service and parts network is second to none and I've heard Yamaha is very good too.As far as the Generac stationary generators,they work as advertised.I've had a few minor problems with them but nothing major.You get a lot of security and peace of mind for not a lot of money.

+1 to the stationary Generac. Have one up north, runs on propane. Had it since 2008, no big issues, just maintenance. Had one switch fail in the summertime, faulty part, fixed under warranty, took 2 weeks. Aside from that, smooth sailing.
 
If I lived in the GTA I'd look at nat gas. If nat gas came down my street I'd use nat gas. The worry on the performance of propane in colder temps is for sure a valid one and something to consider. I wonder if there's a way you could keep the tanks warmer so they don't get affected by the cold

From what I've read in my research of the natural gas supply, especially in large population centres, the natural gas supply is susceptible to being lost in extended blackouts (with added risk in cold weather), because of the dependence of the distribution network on electricity,

Again, the only totally reliable fuel source will be what an individual person has for themselves.
 
There should be a way to use the engine or exhaust heat to warm the regulator (and preferably tank). Start the genny, use low load for a while to get things warm, then open it up. The tank doesn't care that it's -20 outside if it is surrounded by warm air. Be careful you don't blow yourself up by using free exhaust and propane, engine cooling air would be much safer.
 
There should be a way to use the engine or exhaust heat to warm the regulator (and preferably tank). Start the genny, use low load for a while to get things warm, then open it up. The tank doesn't care that it's -20 outside if it is surrounded by warm air. Be careful you don't blow yourself up by using free exhaust and propane, engine cooling air would be much safer.

What I've read it can be done but may be illegal in some jurisdictions and can very dangerous. Heat it too little, it won't work. Heat it too much and the pressure release valves open up on the tank making very dangerous.... and throwing away the fuel. Very high diligence and observation is necessary at the least.
 
If I lived in the GTA I'd look at nat gas. If nat gas came down my street I'd use nat gas. The worry on the performance of propane in colder temps is for sure a valid one and something to consider. I wonder if there's a way you could keep the tanks warmer so they don't get affected by the cold

They put electric heaters on them to raise the temperature. Made in Trenton BTW. Now we have a propane tank depending on electricity and electricity depending on the propane tank.
 
Diesel. Buy #1 furnace oil, or #1 diesel if you can find it. It can sit for a decade if you put a biocide/fuel treat in it. After a decade put it through the furnace or a farm tractor or truck and start over. It works in all temps and isn't as dangerous as having a large stash of gasoline.
 
They put electric heaters on them to raise the temperature. Made in Trenton BTW. Now we have a propane tank depending on electricity and electricity depending on the propane tank.
Just need one of those perpetual motion machines.
Diesel. Buy #1 furnace oil, or #1 diesel if you can find it. It can sit for a decade if you put a biocide/fuel treat in it. After a decade put it through the furnace or a farm tractor or truck and start over. It works in all temps and isn't as dangerous as having a large stash of gasoline.

I'd probably hook it right into the furnace oil tank? Do they make diesel generators in the 5kilowatt range?
 

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